293 replies to this topic

[playmaker]

Irish Viking 87, on 16 September 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

The problem I see with only one division is a team could go 8-0 in the conference and possibly not play what is thought to be three of the top teams in the conference, while another team has to play them all. One team goes 8-0 and the other goes 5-3. Or they both go 8-0. There could still be co-champs because all teams still won't play each other. I'm not sure there is a solution with a 12 team league. The only true solution to have a true champion is a round-robin schedule and you can't do that with 12 teams and only 8 league games.

The 6 and 6 format they have now is fine. Just make all of the conference games matter. The 6 "best" teams play each other anyways. The likelihood of a bottom team winning the title is very unlikely, because they would have to beat at least two of the three best teams they play. And let's face it, the lack of parity in the league will most likely not let that happen.

Take this year for example. Arlington, liberty, McComb, HL, leipsic, and VB will all play each other. Odds are those teams will sweep whatever lower opponents they play, giving them all three conference loses (maybe 2 if An upset is pulled).

So, best overall conference record wins the title. Simple enough. Sure, MAYBE the top teams all beat up on each other, but they will still probably have a better record than a bottom team.

[playmaker]

^^^just reorganize teams every year or two tops, using a mix of formula AND common sense.

[Pulitzer]

Bluetiger76, on 16 September 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

I will be the only one with these sentiments, but who cares if there is two divisions or one. The bigger picture is the playoffs.... who makes it to week 11 and who wins in week 15. In 2004 Liberty-Benton went 10-0 and won the conference. In route to the conference championship they beat Hardin Northern 35-0 at HN. LB won in wk11 then was bounced in wk12. Hardin Northern went 14-1 and won the state championship. Who do you think remembers the BVC champ as oppose to the state champ? If the conference now has two champions or a singular determined champ...I don't really care. Set your goals higher........JMHO fellows.

This hits the nail right on the head. It's the postseason that counts, not the conference/division champ(s) that no one will remember anyway. Does the MAC care if Coldwater or Marion Local wins the league? Of course not. Both will be playing for state championships later this fall, so who cares about the league?

Every point bluetiger made in his post is spot on. Part of the point of the divisional play is so the better teams can set their sights higher with good conference games and good week 1-2 games. And, part of it is so the also-rans can get to .500 and maybe draw some more kids into their programs so they can start to build a little bit. Think of it as sort of like relegation/promotion in British soccer -- you build some success and you get a chance to run with the big dogs. And vice versa, of course, for the teams that can't hang. It will be interesting to see if anyone gets "promoted" after this two-year cycle (NB, P-G?) and see if they're able to stay up.

[Irish Viking 87]

playmaker, on 16 September 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

The 6 and 6 format they have now is fine. Just make all of the conference games matter. The 6 "best" teams play each other anyways. The likelihood of a bottom team winning the title is very unlikely, because they would have to beat at least two of the three best teams they play. And let's face it, the lack of parity in the league will most likely not let that happen.

Take this year for example. Arlington, liberty, McComb, HL, leipsic, and VB will all play each other. Odds are those teams will sweep whatever lower opponents they play, giving them all three conference loses (maybe 2 if An upset is pulled).

So, best overall conference record wins the title. Simple enough. Sure, MAYBE the top teams all beat up on each other, but they will still probably have a better record than a bottom team.

Then why do you need the 6 and 6 format. Just designate the top 6 and bottom 6 and wait for the year that the top six do beat up on each other and 3 teams finish 3-2 and 3 teams finish 2-3 in their head to head. Then team 7 upsets two of the top teams and wins the league at 7-1.I know it's far fetched, but what I'm trying to say is that the only way to get a true league champion is to either have a week 10 championship game or a round robin. Neither one is possible so there will always be the chance that the best team doesn't win the league.

[Irish Viking 87]

Pulitzer, on 16 September 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

This hits the nail right on the head. It's the postseason that counts, not the conference/division champ(s) that no one will remember anyway. Does the MAC care if Coldwater or Marion Local wins the league? Of course not. Both will be playing for state championships later this fall, so who cares about the league?

Every point bluetiger made in his post is spot on. Part of the point of the divisional play is so the better teams can set their sights higher with good conference games and good week 1-2 games. And, part of it is so the also-rans can get to .500 and maybe draw some more kids into their programs so they can start to build a little bit. Think of it as sort of like relegation/promotion in British soccer -- you build some success and you get a chance to run with the big dogs. And vice versa, of course, for the teams that can't hang. It will be interesting to see if anyone gets "promoted" after this two-year cycle (NB, P-G?) and see if they're able to stay up.

I agree it helps teams get to the play offs. But kids that win a league championship will always remember the year they won it.

[Bluetiger76]

Irish Viking 87, on 16 September 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

I agree it helps teams get to the play offs. But kids that win a league championship will always remember the year they won it.

You can bet that they would also remember the year they played in the state playoffs and/or won a state championship. There is no right or wrong answer to this debate, it all lies in how high you want to set the bar.

Edited by Bluetiger76, 16 September 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[falconfan84]

We're only 1 week into the league schedule and we're already trying to "fix" it? Why don't we let it play out and see how this setup will: (1) get more BVC teams into the playoff on a consistent basis, and (2) help each school find OOC teams that better suit their situations (whether that be a confidence-builder, or a jackpot of computer points). Bottom line: more OOC victories means more second-level points to the winning teams within conference play. There are some of us who are all worried about how the conference teams' first level points were after week 2 this year...but it is when those teams the BVC beats WIN, that the points start rolling in.

Lakota, Wynford, Bowling Green, East Cleveland Shaw, Parkway, Lancaster Fisher Catholic, Holgate, Fairview, St. Wendelin, Ottawa Hills, Bluffton, Elmwood, Fremont St. Joseph....there are 13 teams that the BVC schools have beat. That's 13 schools from varying divisions that are potential second round points during BVC contests. THEN...watch each of those schools' records throughout the season. Each win from one of those THIRTEEN teams (this year) will become second round points for the BVC school that beat them. When you look at the overall picture, this is really a good thing for the conference. Nine of the 12 BVC schools have won at least 1 non-conference game this season, and 5 of those 9 BVC teams have won 2 non-conference games (McComb winning 1 of theirs against P-G...so not really the same as against an opponent playing a schedule outside of the BVC). When is the last time 75% of the BVC teams won a non-conference game in the same season?

The thing with CONFERENCE play is that wins and losses will equal each other...so that means limited computer point potential. The wins and losses will still equal each other for the new BVC, but there is a slight chance for a "lower-level" BVC school to beat 2 OOC teams with good records, beat the other 5 lower-level teams, and then beat 1 or 2 of the teams in the "upper-level" of their division, now giving themselves a chance for playoffs that they probably wouldn't get if they had to also face the 3 upper-level teams from the other BVC division. We probably won't see this happen very often, but the possibility exists...maybe more than we might think.

I say leave it alone...I believe this is for football only. Every other sport has a true champion. And...if it can help to build the struggling programs, then it benefits everybody.

Edited by falconfan84, 16 September 2014 - 07:50 PM.

[Irish Viking 87]

Bluetiger76, on 16 September 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

You can bet that they would also remember the year they played in the state playoffs and/or won a state championship. Their is no right or wrong answer to this debate, it all lies in how high you want to set the bar.

I agree that they will remember playing in or winning a state championship. And I agree that in the end they are more important than league titles. The bar should always be a state championship. Pulitzer said years after no one remembers who won a league title and I merely said that the kids on the winning team will have a life time of memories.

[Bluetiger76]

Irish Viking 87, on 16 September 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

I agree that they will remember playing in or winning a state championship. And I agree that in the end they are more important than league titles. The bar should always be a state championship. Pulitzer said years after no one remembers who won a league title and I merely said that the kids on the winning team will have a life time of memories.

Gotcha....I couldn't argue with that.

[Bluetiger76]

falconfan84, on 16 September 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

When is the last time 75% of the BVC teams won a non-conference game in the same season?

2003 The BVC went 9-1 in week one. Their only loss was PG to Columbus Grove who went 15-0 and won the state championship.

[dw629]

Bluetiger76, on 16 September 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

2003 The BVC went 9-1 in week one. Their only loss was PG to Columbus Grove who went 15-0 and won the state championship.

Had some impressive wins including Cory-Rawson beating solid playoff Blutton team

[Bluetiger76]

dw629, on 16 September 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

Had some impressive wins including Cory-Rawson beating solid playoff Blutton team

Leipsic beat PH.....

[falconfan84]

Bluetiger76, on 16 September 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

2003 The BVC went 9-1 in week one. Their only loss was PG to Columbus Grove who went 15-0 and won the state championship.

Wow!...that's really good, actually...but I'm still gonna argue that is definitely the exception and not the norm. That's still only 9 schools that the BVC had to draw 2nd round points from...out of a possible 10. There is a potential to have 20 different schools now (although not likely, since I'm sure some schools will show up on more than one BVC team's schedule...like Bluffton, for example). Almost a guarantee that the BVC will gather more 2nd round points this way.

[Casual_fan]

Since conference championships don't matter anymore, then we should just do away with them. Let OSHAA assign games based on the region your in. Details don't matter, no one will be happy with the way they do it.