255 replies to this topic

[Hound Dog]

jeffcat-bucki, on 26 November 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Why make a trip longer than it needs to be for no legitimate purpose?

Why does it matter so much for football to be geographically centered? Basketball regionals are set in stone. Why can't they set the Semi Finals at a set location for football. With alternating teams against different regions each year.

Let's face it. It's always the same locations hosting playoff games every year. Just set it in stone in August and cut out the politics and under the table arrangements...ie. Findlay hosting 2 games in 1 day when Lima didn't have a game that day.

[Bobby]

polkhigh33, on 26 November 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

There are regional first round matchups that are 2-3 hour road trips (ie: Coldwater vs Chippewa) so what does it matter? Those kind of matchups have happened numerous times now.

Good point. The regions are bracketed and they never change those for travel distance.

[jeffcat-bucki]

Hound Dog, on 26 November 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

Why does it matter so much for football to be geographically centered? Basketball regionals are set in stone. Why can't they set the Semi Finals at a set location for football. With alternating teams against different regions each year.

Let's face it. It's always the same locations hosting playoff games every year. Just set it in stone in August and cut out the politics and under the table arrangements...ie. Findlay hosting 2 games in 1 day when Lima didn't have a game that day.

.
They aren't set in stone because the system is designed to accommodate a game's need in terms of size and location which is never known. 1st round DSJ vs DJ in 01 being moved to Lima Stadium for example. Likewise, hosting a game at a predetermined location can really create one hell of a mess logistically if there are facility problems, teams from CIncy playing a predetermined game against LCC at Lima Stadium in a semi-final for example.

The system in place is logical and reasonable for schools for the most part. To change it for your own interests seems pretty unfair to the schools and athletes.

[Irish Viking 87]

jeffcat-bucki, on 26 November 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Why make a trip longer than it needs to be for no legitimate purpose?

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 November 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

.
They aren't set in stone because the system is designed to accommodate a game's need in terms of size and location which is never known. 1st round DSJ vs DJ in 01 being moved to Lima Stadium for example. Likewise, hosting a game at a predetermined location can really create one hell of a mess logistically if there are facility problems, teams from CIncy playing a predetermined game against LCC at Lima Stadium in a semi-final for example.

The system in place is logical and reasonable for schools for the most part. To change it for your own interests seems pretty unfair to the schools and athletes.

I'm not sure why you say a longer trip is not legitmate. Or why it is unfair to schools and athletes to make these trips. Take Grove's match-up this year. Not a whole lot of people are giving them a chance against Marion Local. They would have a much better chance against Trimble(IMO). It's not like the OHSAA would make Grove travel to SE Ohio to play in Trimble's backyard. It would be at a site somewhat close to halfway between the two schools.(Probably in Columbus somewhere)
If they win this week, they make that trip next week anyway and no one complains about the distance. No one complained in years past when the R24 winner had to make the trek clear across the state to Canton or Massilon to play in the finals. I know Grove will play a great game and leave everything out on the field but deep down I'm sure they would rather play Marion Local next week in the State final game.

[jeffcat-bucki]

Irish Viking 87, on 27 November 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

I'm not sure why you say a longer trip is not legitmate. Or why it is unfair to schools and athletes to make these trips. Take Grove's match-up this year. Not a whole lot of people are giving them a chance against Marion Local. They would have a much better chance against Trimble(IMO). It's not like the OHSAA would make Grove travel to SE Ohio to play in Trimble's backyard. It would be at a site somewhat close to halfway between the two schools.(Probably in Columbus somewhere)
If they win this week, they make that trip next week anyway and no one complains about the distance. No one complained in years past when the R24 winner had to make the trek clear across the state to Canton or Massilon to play in the finals. I know Grove will play a great game and leave everything out on the field but deep down I'm sure they would rather play Marion Local next week in the State final game.

What is with this onus of predicting the outcomes of matchups and deliberately choosing a team's path to state? Anyway you slice it the most worthy team wins state. Hell you might have the best 2 teams in the state playing in a 1st game sometimes. Why do these team's paths need to be changed for your own selfish desire to potentially see a better matchup in your eyes in columbus. Speaking of columbus, one attraction of columbus is it is located centrally within the state so it's generally a more equal drive for most teams just off of common sense. Is it just the way Americans are now a days feeling they are entitled to whatever they want and they can discriminate against what path teams take and others don't, whilst forgetting the additional financial cost of traveling farther for no reason. Sure I'd love to see grove beat somebody from SE ohio and be in columbus but life doesn't work that way and they have local. You want to get to columbus...beat local and earn it there.

[Hound Dog]

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 November 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

.
They aren't set in stone because the system is designed to accommodate a game's need in terms of size and location which is never known.

To change it for your own interests seems pretty unfair to the schools and athletes.

No kidding Mr. Obvious.....but why do they do it for Basketball, baseball, etc. They don't know the teams involved and the locations to be centered geographically then either. That's my point. There are plenty of "big enough" stadiums to play Semi-Final Games. Dayton, Bowling Green, Toledo, Cincinnati, Canton, Akron, Dublin, and the list goes on. Heck lets just let the runner up cities in the bidding process host a round of semi finals. I would have no problem driving to Canton or Massilon to play a semi-final game. That way you wouldn't have to debate which region is tougher than the other and have arguments whether a game (example from a few years ago, Marion vs. St. Johns) be played in semi's or finals. It takes that debate away. And the complaints too.. isn't that what this topic is about. Northwest vs. Southwest region every year in the semi finals?

By the way. I have no problem playing Marion Local this week. So it's not a self interest thing for me. Week 14 and Thanksgiving weekend is an awesome time to be playing football. Plus with the game a mere 15 miles away from Grove it's even better.

[Bobby]

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 November 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

You want to get to columbus...beat local and earn it there.

Unfortunately the Region 24 winner has had to stay that four years in a row. In the eastern regions, You want to get to Columbus... beat Berlin Center Western Reserve, Mogadore, Grove City Christian, Malvern, etc... For seven years in a row now a team from Reg. 24 or 26 would have to beat DSJ or Marion Local to get to the finals. In the eastern side of the state you have to beat one of the teams I listed above to get there. Would state runners-up Buckeye Central, Shadyside, Hopewell Loudon, Newark Catholic and Trimble have made it to the finals if they had to go through DSJ or ML every year?

[jeffcat-bucki]

Bobby, on 27 November 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Unfortunately the Region 24 winner has had to stay that four years in a row. In the eastern regions, You want to get to Columbus... beat Berlin Center Western Reserve, Mogadore, Grove City Christian, Malvern, etc... For seven years in a row now a team from Reg. 24 or 26 would have to beat DSJ or Marion Local to get to the finals. In the eastern side of the state you have to beat one of the teams I listed above to get there. Would state runners-up Buckeye Central, Shadyside, Hopewell Loudon, Newark Catholic and Trimble have made it to the finals if they had to go through DSJ or ML every year?

I don't know and quite frankly I don't really care. It gets settled on the field regardless and a champion is crowned. Whether a team plays 4 cupcakes or 4 nail biters against the best teams from all time is irrelevant. You had to win to get there and earn it against the field that was set in the region and near them. I really only see this complaint from people in small school football in NW ohio for what reason I'll never understand. I rarely hear from anybody D5 and lower and never with the same amount of intensity.

[bob22]

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 November 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

I don't know and quite frankly I don't really care. It gets settled on the field regardless and a champion is crowned. Whether a team plays 4 cupcakes or 4 nail biters against the best teams from all time is irrelevant. You had to win to get there and earn it against the field that was set in the region and near them. I really only see this complaint from people in small school football in NW ohio for what reason I'll never understand. I rarely hear from anybody D5 and lower and never with the same amount of intensity.

Really? Why do you think we have seven divisions now? The smaller d1s complained about the disparity between them and the larger schools long enough and loud enough.

[jeffcat-bucki]

bob22, on 27 November 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Really? Why do you think we have seven divisions now? The smaller d1s complained about the disparity between them and the larger schools long enough and loud enough.

I meant complaining about the issue at hand. I supported their argument for splitting d1 up. Schools like mentor are massive in comparison to the lower enrollment old d1 schools

[samtiger]

at least were not talking private versus public

[HH75]

samtiger, on 27 November 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

at least were not talking private versus public

Is it ok to talk about privates in public?

[Irish Viking 87]

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 November 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

I don't know and quite frankly I don't really care. It gets settled on the field regardless and a champion is crowned. Whether a team plays 4 cupcakes or 4 nail biters against the best teams from all time is irrelevant. You had to win to get there and earn it against the field that was set in the region and near them. I really only see this complaint from people in small school football in NW ohio for what reason I'll never understand. I rarely hear from anybody D5 and lower and never with the same amount of intensity.

First of all, if you don't care move on to another thread. But, quite frankly, I think you do. You keep talking about travel expenses for schools. An extra hour or two on a bus is maybe a couple of hundred dollars more. Most schools can afford that especially this late in the play-offs. Just take the money made from ticket sales in the previous games and put it in the fuel tank. Money problem solved.

So a team from SE Ohio can play 3 cupcakes and one nail biter and make it to the State finals while a team from NW Ohio plays one cupcake and 3 nail biters and doesn't make it to Columbus. Sounds about right to me. If the OHSAA doesn't want to hear this argument don't re-bracket every year when the State semi-finals come around.

And finally, the reason you hear this argument from small school NW Ohio is the fact that the in the last 10 years the 22/24 or 24/26 loser watches the State final game and knows that they are better than the team the winner is playing. It is every kids dream to play in a State Championship game and the OHSAA has taken that dream away from a lot of kids in NW Ohio.

[jeffcat-bucki]

Irish Viking 87, on 27 November 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

First of all, if you don't care move on to another thread. But, quite frankly, I think you do. You keep talking about travel expenses for schools. An extra hour or two on a bus is maybe a couple of hundred dollars more. Most schools can afford that especially this late in the play-offs. Just take the money made from ticket sales in the previous games and put it in the fuel tank. Money problem solved.

So a team from SE Ohio can play 3 cupcakes and one nail biter and make it to the State finals while a team from NW Ohio plays one cupcake and 3 nail biters and doesn't make it to Columbus. Sounds about right to me. If the OHSAA doesn't want to hear this argument don't re-bracket every year when the State semi-finals come around.

And finally, the reason you hear this argument from small school NW Ohio is the fact that the in the last 10 years the 22/24 or 24/26 loser watches the State final game and knows that they are better than the team the winner is playing. It is every kids dream to play in a State Championship game and the OHSAA has taken that dream away from a lot of kids in NW Ohio.

I'm sure a lot of schools would be wondering why they are wasting extra time and money traveling farther for no logical reason. Likewise you just confirmed my statement earlier about the pussification of America thinking you are entitled to a state title game just because you think some team is better than another. How about you just earn it? Is that object lost to America? You know what life doesn't always give you the easiest and most predictable path...I don't see why we should start doing it in football while wasting time and money to boot.

Edited by jeffcat-bucki, 27 November 2014 - 10:29 PM.

[playmaker]

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 November 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

I'm sure a lot of schools would be wondering why they are wasting extra time and money traveling farther for no logical reason.

You seem pretty clueless on this. The logical reason is as follows....The championship isn't supposed to be N v S or E v W, it is supposed to be the two best. People don't complain as much about it in DV because that division isn't dominated by two teams near as much.....also, don't complain about extra driving and gas. My lord that's an extra couple of gallons to drive an extra 60 miles.

[jeffcat-bucki]

playmaker, on 27 November 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

You seem pretty clueless on this. The logical reason is as follows....The championship isn't supposed to be N v S or E v W, it is supposed to be the two best. People don't complain as much about it in DV because that division isn't dominated by two teams near as much.....also, don't complain about extra driving and gas. My lord that's an extra couple of gallons to drive an extra 60 miles.

Yet the only complaining is by small school people in NW ohio on this issue for the most part. Are we supposed to piss and moan when the supposed 2 best teams in NFL football are in the AFC too? This isn't card shuffling, it's a playoff. It's no different if you get dealt a "harder" bracket in NCAAB. What are you going to do?...cry about it because the supposed 2 best teams didn't play in the championship game? Please

[bob22]

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 November 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

I'm sure a lot of schools would be wondering why they are wasting extra time and money traveling farther for no logical reason. Likewise you just confirmed my statement earlier about the pussification of America thinking you are entitled to a state title game just because you think some team is better than another. How about you just earn it? Is that object lost to America? You know what life doesn't always give you the easiest and most predictable path...I don't see why we should start doing it in football while wasting time and money to boot.

Why couldn't the smaller D1's have earned it? Instead we have seven divisions now. Why couldn't Smithville have earned their girls basketball title? Instead Dave Rice got his panties in a bunch (about a school that no longer exists btw) and complained loud and long till he wore enough people down. Now we have added red tape for schools and AD's for "competitive balance" that potentially changes every division in every team sport.

All I'd like to see is a change up to which region plays whom every few years in one division in one sport. Seems mild in comparison.

Edited by bob22, 28 November 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[jeffcat-bucki]

bob22, on 28 November 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

Why couldn't the smaller D1's have earned it? Instead we have seven divisions now. Why couldn't Smithville have earned their girls basketball title? Instead Dave Rice got his panties in a bunch (about a school that no longer exists btw) and complained loud and long till he wore enough people down. Now we have added red tape for schools and AD's that potentially changes every division in every team sport.

All I'd like to see is a change up to which region plays whom every few years in one division in one sport. Seems mild in comparison.

I have no idea why they couldn't earn it. Let's go out there and throw Marion local vs Hudson and see how that goes. In the old system, some of the d1 schools were twice the size of the smaller schools and the difference was continually getting larger. It used to be an enrollment of 494 and up with no limit and those lower enrollment teams were playing teams like St X who has almost 1200 boys.

[Bobby]

Nobody's asking to have the brackets manipulated for the two western teams or even the two best teams. We're asking to have the brackets rotated like in every other sport and leave them there. Don't change them every year to keep pitting the same two regions in the state semi's year after year after year after year after year. No one is entitled to play in the state title game and that includes the teams in eastern Ohio.

Are there any other regions in another division that are forced to meet in the semi's virtually every year?

Incidentally, there are schools in Div VII that are twice the size of the smallest schools in Div VII. Tiffin Calvert, one of the smallest in Div VII (45 boys), just lost to the largest school in Div VII, Columbus Grove (111 boys).

[Irish Viking 87]

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 November 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

I'm sure a lot of schools would be wondering why they are wasting extra time and money traveling farther for no logical reason. Likewise you just confirmed my statement earlier about the pussification of America thinking you are entitled to a state title game just because you think some team is better than another. How about you just earn it? Is that object lost to America? You know what life doesn't always give you the easiest and most predictable path...I don't see why we should start doing it in football while wasting time and money to boot.

You are clueless. Glad you only show up at football playoff time. It's not about your pussification of America world. It's about kids getting a chance to play in a state title game. Over the last 10 years the best two teams in D6 and now D7 have come from this part of Ohio. That's not just my opinion, that's a lot of peoples opinion. Like Bobby says no one is entitled to play in the state finals game. Including eastern Ohio. All I'm saying is if the brackets are set at the start of the play-offs, leave them that way. When did you become the money police? Again, it's a few hundred bucks at most. I don't think that is going to break a school district. Why is it wasting time and money to travel an extra hour or two? Because the GREAT BUCKI said so. You really are out of touch if you think schools would think it's a waste to do this.

How about the Eastern side of the state earn it and beat two teams from this area. You know it probably wouldn't happen and then they would threaten to leave the OHSAA again. Thankfully the season ends next weekend and we won't have to hear your diluted logic for another 46 or 47 weeks.