167 replies to this topic

[Dman]

I assumed we were talking recent history or at least this decade... but thanks for the clarification. There might be a few administrations who have been waiting the past 20 years to get another vote on the one that got away.

In other news.. Can you guys believe Monica Seles got stabbed in the back? Those German's are crazy...

Edited by Dman, 17 May 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[omniscient1]

Lets keep voting and voting until somebody gives my team a trophy..... not sure how many times and ways we will need to change the rules to do it, but it will be worth it.

[Rocketman]

Dman, on 17 May 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

From a strategic standpoint...those pushing change would be fools not to support the split vote FIRST...then worry about fixing the rest. The DI's in Cleveland are dying to vote yes on the split. I can imagine the current result has pissed off some who might not have been inclined to vote "yes" before. I'm sure it would be a close vote...it always is. But with such close margins, it seems putting all the eggs in the "split" proposal is the easiest path to change.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand on this one..........
and I'm not opposed to the thinking that the OHSAA would cook the books if they thought the next proposal had a chance of passing.....
and I find it somewhat ironic that AD Ron Williams from LCC said that HE voted NO on the issue........
it was my understanding that the voting was to take place by the Principals at the OHSAA schools.........
maybe I got this wrong when he said this on Koza's show, but I highly doubt it........

the only way I would ever take the OHSAA's word is if it was a "up or down" vote similar to how they vote on the House floor.....
that way everyone knows how the other voted.........if anyone believes that they have your best interest in mind, please Google
their picture album from their last conference in Hawaii ..........this is, has been, and always will be about..........MONEY

[Bobby]

Bigdogg79, on 17 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Interesting stat I heard the other day. LCC has 54 voucher kids playing sports. We don't need no stinking competitive balance. Practice a little harder.

How many open enrollment kids are on the rosters at Bath, Shawnee, Elida and Perry? It only took one transfer for Berlin Hiland to win back to back state titles. One transfer helped South Webster beat Columbus Grove in the state finals.

What is the final goal of any proposal? I keep hearing "fair", make it fair for everybody. What does that mean? How will we know if we reach "fair"? What if this proposal had passed and nothing changed? What if the same teams, public and private, and same % of private schools keep winning titles? Outside of total separation, what is the final result that these folks are seeking to achieve?

[Dman]

I assume asking that every team competing have a boundary would fall under the fairness umbrella.

[Maltese Falcon]

Again, many would like to see a published list of how each school voted, which schools had ballots rejected as invalid or late and the 191 schools that did not vote.

Was this a secret ballot? Because when taxpayer money is involved this information should be made public.

[paperboy]

Maltese Falcon, on 17 May 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Was this a secret ballot? Because when taxpayer money is involved this information should be made public.

I don't think there is any taxpayer money involved in the OHSAA. They don't charge schools to be members, and I believe all of their revenue comes from postseason tournaments.

[Dman]

I'd love to see that vote tally too.

[Maltese Falcon]

paperboy, on 17 May 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

I don't think there is any taxpayer money involved in the OHSAA. They don't charge schools to be members, and I believe all of their revenue comes from postseason tournaments.

I understand that the OHSAA is not publicly funded, but the schools that voted are taxpayer funded and I would think school district residents would like to see how/ if their school voted. As far as knowing which schools didn't or incorrectly voted, it's just a matter of holding public employees accountable.

[Bigdogg79]

Bobby, on 17 May 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

How many open enrollment kids are on the rosters at Bath, Shawnee, Elida and Perry? It only took one transfer for Berlin Hiland to win back to back state titles. One transfer helped South Webster beat Columbus Grove in the state finals.

What is the final goal of any proposal? I keep hearing "fair", make it fair for everybody. What does that mean? How will we know if we reach "fair"? What if this proposal had passed and nothing changed? What if the same teams, public and private, and same % of private schools keep winning titles? Outside of total separation, what is the final result that these folks are seeking to achieve?

That's all open to the public, make a call yourself and find out. How many DSJ students live outside the Jefferson school district? See the problem yet? Why dose every kid count for the public schools classification purposes and only kids who have parents with the financial ability count for DSJ? It's like playing black jack. Publics use all 52 cards, privates use face cards only. Who has a better chance?

Edited by Bigdogg79, 18 May 2013 - 02:43 PM.

[Dakota Green]

As far as the 191 schools whose athletic directors or principals didn't vote, it is because they do not care one way or another. Those schools are probably those where athletics is just not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Also part of that is that this proposal may have been too complicated for a individual with a masters degree to understand and to comprehend. Not trying to be funny here but that could be true.

[Maltese Falcon]

Dakota Green, on 18 May 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

As far as the 191 schools whose athletic directors or principals didn't vote, it is because they do not care one way or another. Those schools are probably those where athletics is just not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Also part of that is that this proposal may have been too complicated for a individual with a masters degree to understand and to comprehend. Not trying to be funny here but that could be true.

As a principal. whether the individual cares about athletics or not, his job is to vote in the best interests of the school and community. If he/she is truly clueless about sports there are a number of people (athletic dept.) who could provide input toward the issue. I find it hard to believe that there are close to 200 schools in Ohio that have principals who are this ignorant and/ or incompetent.

[Rocketman]

Maltese Falcon, on 18 May 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

As a principal. whether the individual cares about athletics or not, his job is to vote in the best interests of the school and community. If he/she is truly clueless about sports there are a number of people (athletic dept.) who could provide input toward the issue. I find it hard to believe that there are close to 200 schools in Ohio that have principals who are this ignorant and/ or incompetent.

[Bobby]

Bigdogg79, on 18 May 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

That's all open to the public, make a call yourself and find out. How many DSJ students live outside the Jefferson school district? See the problem yet? Why dose every kid count for the public schools classification purposes and only kids who have parents with the financial ability count for DSJ? It's like playing black jack. Publics use all 52 cards, privates use face cards only. Who has a better chance?

How many Jefferson students live outside the Delphos city school district? How is a kid from outside the Delphos district who goes to DSJ any different from a kid from outside the district who goes to Jefferson except that they go to DJ for free? What problem am I supposed to be seeing?
Are you implying that DSJ families are wealthy and DJ families are not? Ludicrous!!!

I understand that you believe that every athletic accomplishment at a private school occurs ONLY because of their numerous and unfair "advantages". And nothing anyone says will ever change your mind. Have you ever thought of moving to Wayne County? A lot of like-minded people there.

[Bigdogg79]

Bobby, on 18 May 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

How many Jefferson students live outside the Delphos city school district? How is a kid from outside the Delphos district who goes to DSJ any different from a kid from outside the district who goes to Jefferson except that they go to DJ for free? What problem am I supposed to be seeing?
Are you implying that DSJ families are wealthy and DJ families are not? Ludicrous!!!

I understand that you believe that every athletic accomplishment at a private school occurs ONLY because of their numerous and unfair "advantages". And nothing anyone says will ever change your mind. Have you ever thought of moving to Wayne County? A lot of like-minded people there.

Again, this is public information, just call the school and find out. I know Jefferson loses more than it gains, but so what? I can't call St. Johns and get any information at all. We all know how well the Catholic church like to keep secrets;). Explain how the current system of classification by bodies walking in the hall is fair and support your premiss with facts. Explain how St. Johns athletic success compared to Jefferson and tell us how this has happens despite the fact that Jefferson can pay their teachers/coaches more, don't have to do fundraisers etc? Enlighten us all how this mirrorcle has happened?

[Dman]

The culture at private schools is superior to the public’s…almost all the time. The primary reason is that private schools can pick and choose their make-up. If a kid acts up, they can ship him off to Perry. If a kid has special education needs, they can just say they don’t offer the services and let the public system deal with it. There are countless other examples…but these support the argument ideally. Parental involvement is typically superior in the private setting which trickles down to student work ethic. It is a much easier challenge to educate and coach at a private school than most public's. The private's simply don’t face the multi-faceted problems that public schools deal with daily.

​The culture is an insurmountable advantage in and of itself in most cases. Add the boundary issue to the mix, and I find the whole systemic status quo definition of fairness to be laughable. Two schools with the same number of student's are NOT equal when the means by which those student's arrive are SO DIFFERENT. Yet the system Ohio utilizes feigns competitive balance as such.

Edited by Dman, 20 May 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[paperboy]

^^^ For once, I agree with much of what you have to say. I can't dispute any of the private schools' advantages, but to call them 'insurmountable' flies in the face of logic - and history. There are plenty of public schools that have shown they can 'surmount' the privates on a regular basis - heck, many of them are within an hour's drive of Lima.

As a supporter of a public school, I want my kids to compete against the best competition that is out there. To exlude or bump up private schools simply because they possess a few advantages is lowering the bar, and there is way too much of that going on in this country already.

[Dman]

As a supporter of a public school, I want my kids to compete against the best competition that is out there. To exlude or bump up private schools simply because they possess a few advantages is lowering the bar, and there is way too much of that going on in this country already.

I'm politically to the right of Ghengis Kahn. But I know bull******* when I see it. Every chance these "private schools" get to vote so their kids get to "compete against the best competition that is out there"..they vote to stay right where they are. They don't want to compete against the best, they want a "trophy. Then they can use their trophies to say..."see...we are better than you!" THE LOWERED BAR IS COMING FROM THE PRIVATE SCHOOL'S (and some public) WHO WANT TO COMPETE AGAINST LESS ADVANTAGED SCHOOL'S...at a lower classification than what reasonable minds could agree is competitive.

I 100% agree that everyone should want to play the BEST, within obvious limitations. When are we going to demand that the PRIVATES and those school's thwarting boundary limitations strive to "compete against the best competition that is out there."

We have a fundamental disagreement about who the real wussies are in this discussion. Why you guys are bagging on Wayne County...I look at Ron William's about face with as much respect as a dude fighting girl's in UFC. They are scared *******less of tougher competition.

[omniscient1]

Dman, on 20 May 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

As a supporter of a public school, I want my kids to compete against the best competition that is out there. To exlude or bump up private schools simply because they possess a few advantages is lowering the bar, and there is way too much of that going on in this country already.

I'm politically to the right of Ghengis Kahn. But I know bull******* when I see it. Every chance these "private schools" get to vote so their kids get to "compete against the best competition that is out there"..they vote to stay right where they are. They don't want to compete against the best, they want a "trophy. Then they can use their trophies to say..."see...we are better than you!" THE LOWERED BAR IS COMING FROM THE PRIVATE SCHOOL'S (and some public) WHO WANT TO COMPETE AGAINST LESS ADVANTAGED SCHOOL'S...at a lower classification than what reasonable minds could agree is competitive.

I 100% agree that everyone should want to play the BEST, within obvious limitations. When are we going to demand that the PRIVATES and those school's thwarting boundary limitations strive to "compete against the best competition that is out there."

We have a fundamental disagreement about who the real wussies are in this discussion. Why you guys are bagging on Wayne County...I look at Ron William's about face with as much respect as a dude fighting girl's in UFC. They are scared *******less of tougher competition.

^^^^^^ This is a bunch of hooey - I am a public school graduate but even I can see advantages and disadvantages on both sides. Most Private schools are begging for students and have very limited resources to compete. Do you honestly think Cleveland St. Joe wouldn't rather be div. I than IV? On the other hand some of the above statements are true as well to their advantage. Same with schools all across the state. Berlin Hiland has advantages that perhaps Leipsic doesn't, but Leipsic has advantages that Lima Senior doesn't and so on,......

[paperboy]

Dman, on 20 May 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm politically to the right of Ghengis Kahn. But I know bull******* when I see it. Every chance these "private schools" get to vote so their kids get to "compete against the best competition that is out there"..they vote to stay right where they are. They don't want to compete against the best, they want a "trophy. Then they can use their trophies to say..."see...we are better than you!" THE LOWERED BAR IS COMING FROM THE PRIVATE SCHOOL'S (and some public) WHO WANT TO COMPETE AGAINST LESS ADVANTAGED SCHOOL'S...at a lower classification than what reasonable minds could agree is competitive.

I 100% agree that everyone should want to play the BEST, within obvious limitations. When are we going to demand that the PRIVATES and those school's thwarting boundary limitations strive to "compete against the best competition that is out there."

We have a fundamental disagreement about who the real wussies are in this discussion. Why you guys are bagging on Wayne County...I look at Ron William's about face with as much respect as a dude fighting girl's in UFC. They are scared *******less of tougher competition.

I think your hatred of LCC is clouding your judgment - not to mention screwing up your grammar, lol. C'mon man, you're better than that.