111 replies to this topic

[govikes]

Mysterio, on 08 March 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Well in all honesty they were the reason why Leipsic was within 6 early in the game. Grant it some Ottoville turnovers here and there but 3 of the starters were out til second half. So when that happens, sure the fans will probably start complaining. Then when the refs finally started calling fouls for Leispic, it was over from there. I know people get annoyed when others tried to use bad officiating as an excuse, but the bottom line is in the first half of that game it appeared the refs were calling ticky tack fouls on Ottoville and only hard obvious fouls on Leipsic. And to make my point even more clear, I have been to a lot of girls games in my life. Kleman (coach of Ottoville) usually never gets worked up over officiating but he was getting pretty worked up last night.

Congratulations to Ottoville! You have a great team over there, Good Luck the rest of the way!

Referees don't look at the totals and try to keep them even. They call a foul a foul regardless which team its on. Fans will always scream "Call it on both ends" whenever the fouls get called more on one team than the other. Ottoville was the better team last night, last month when we played them, and would still be the better team if we played them again today! Please don't try to make excuses because we made a run in the second quarter to make it closer for awhile.

To say that the refs were bad because Kleman never gets upset is hilarious! Every coach will object to calls made against their team. Also, those elbows out by screeners at the foul line could have been called. Siefker would have had a couple more fouls early.

Again, Congrats and Good Luck to both teams Saturday! BVC or PCL at State!

[Mysterio]

Common Sense, on 08 March 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Do not ever take the opinion of a fan of a team at the game, it's never objective. Officials have a very difficult job, and especially at the regional level, you're not getting the jr. high ref who's officiated for only 3 years. They are as good as you'll get at this time of year. That said, you have to always watch who the aggressor is. That team is obviously going to get more fouls. I chuckle when fans complain about the dispartiy in fouls, but their team plays an aggressive style. Of course the fouls are lop sided.

Exactly I agree with your last couple points there. I hate it when people use the disparity of fouls as their argument or whoever got more free throws. It's irrelevant. All of us fans can be prisoners of the moment at times . But also officials can still can be bad this late in the tournament though. Will never forget the travel that was never called in which the Africentric girl clearly did when they played Ottoville in 2007 state final game that pretty much determined the game. It was simply a blatant travel or however the announcer on the radio said it was. Point is ya I understand it's a hard job to do and I know I wouldn't want the job to be an official, but that is why these refs get paid to do this. If they are going to call it one way then they need to do so for both teams. For example it seemed like last night the officials would call ticky tack fouls on Ottoville but not Leipsic unless it was an obvious hard foul. Either way you will have those games and as we talked about over and over in order to win state let alone get down there, part of that is having things go your way.

Edited by Mysterio, 08 March 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[Common Sense]

Now, back to the game. As well as Ottoville is playing right now, don't count out Arcadia. Although they are small, they've played several teams with more size (LB, Carey (twice), McComb, Leipsic). Palmer is an excellent ball handler and can control the tempo of the game. Her and Cramer have had games where they just shoot lights out. Ottoville's size and depth will more than likely prevail, but don't be suprised if it's a decent game.

[Common Sense]

Mysterio, on 08 March 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Exactly I agree with your last couple points there. I hate it when people use the disparity of fouls as their argument or whoever got more free throws. It's irrelevant. All of us fans can be prisoners of the moment at times . But also officials can still can be bad this late in the tournament though. Will never forget the travel that was never called in which the Africentric girl clearly did when they played Ottoville in 2007 state final game that pretty much determined the game. It was simply a blatant travel or however the announcer on the radio said it was. Point is ya I understand it's a hard job to do and I know I wouldn't want the job to be an official, but that is why these refs get paid to do this. If they are going to call it one way then they need to do so for both teams. For example it seemed like last night the officials would call ticky tack fouls on Ottoville but not Leipsic unless it was an obvious hard foul. Either way you will have those games and as we talked about over and over in order to win state let alone get down there, part of that is having things go your way.

Really, one missed travel determined the game??? There are dozens of plays in games that determine the outcome, typically, it's overall poor play, poor shooting, turnovers, that cause a team to lose. As fans, we always see the game through rose colored glasses, that's the problem. Please try to sit back and objectively watcht the game, root for your team, but understand that THEIR play will determine the success or failure, not the officials.

[Mysterio]

govikes, on 08 March 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

[/color]


Congratulations to Ottoville! You have a great team over there, Good Luck the rest of the way!

Referees don't look at the totals and try to keep them even. They call a foul a foul regardless which team its on. Fans will always scream "Call it on both ends" whenever the fouls get called more on one team than the other. Ottoville was the better team last night, last month when we played them, and would still be the better team if we played them again today! Please don't try to make excuses because we made a run in the second quarter to make it closer for awhile.

To say that the refs were bad because Kleman never gets upset is hilarious! Every coach will object to calls made against their team. Also, those elbows out by screeners at the foul line could have been called. Siefker would have had a couple more fouls early.

Again, Congrats and Good Luck to both teams Saturday! BVC or PCL at State!

Not making excuses just a fact. I mean Leipsic made a run because 3 of Ottoville's best Seifker, Turnwald, and Mangas were on the bench with 2 fouls. I was not surprised that they made a run because of that. And sorry but we could debate this back and forth all we want but the officiating was bad lol. Elbows out by screeners? I was just simply stating that Kleman is not a type of coach that will sit there and argue with the officials but it was getting to the point where he had to. You don't know him like I do. Either way I respect your honest overall point. Ottoville was clearly the better team. But a good attempt and great season by Leipsic.

[Mysterio]

Common Sense, on 08 March 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Really, one missed travel determined the game??? There are dozens of plays in games that determine the outcome, typically, it's overall poor play, poor shooting, turnovers, that cause a team to lose. As fans, we always see the game through rose colored glasses, that's the problem. Please try to sit back and objectively watcht the game, root for your team, but understand that THEIR play will determine the success or failure, not the officials.

Common Sense. I always respect some of the things you say on here but perhaps you were not at that game like I was. Maybe I was not specific enough but that travel that didn't get called occurred with less than a minute to go in the game when Ottoville was tied or down by 1 I forget. So ya that could have pretty much determined the game. And it was not just the Ottoville fans saying this either. This is was no first quarter mishap. It was late in the game, so yes. My point wasn't to debate that call that happened 6 years ago just to make a point that officials do make mistakes that could cost a team the game.

Edited by Mysterio, 08 March 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[flounder]

Officiating always seems to be a factor to the fans.....now that my kids have graduated I view games in a much different manner....don't get me wrong, I am still a avid fan, but I see things much more objectively......the other night when the Jays beat New Bremen, I felt it was one of the best officiated games that I have witnessed.....the speed of the game really makes it difficult to call, although I don't feel that way so much from the girls side......rarely will officiating decide the outcome of the game....both teams are going to see bad calls made against their team....it happens....but both teams will have unforced turnovers, missed bunnies, and missed free throws that are more critical in determining the outcome.....blame the officials if you must, but replay the game later and you will notice it was more than the officials that determined that loss.......now, if you win and still blame the officials........well, I really don't know what to say about that!!!!!

[Mysterio]

It's typical for a neutral fan to say that though. "Don't blame the ref when your team put themselves in that position". Sure that is the easiest thing for a neutral fan to say at that point. It seems like we are then making excuses for the officials. Sorry but if a team is playing their tails off and the game still comes down to a bad call, what's the excuse there? It's not absurd to think that the officials can't make crucial mistakes that could determine the outcome of a game. I'm not saying that it happens all the time. In fact it hardly happens. Look yes Ottoville won, I didn't care too much for the officials last night, I don't know anyone personally on that team. Just because your team wins doesn't mean you have to think the officiating was good. I have been a coach for 6 years now I believe and one thing I always say to the kids is never let the officials take control of the game. Play your best and don't ever use them as an excuse. But sometimes one call can change the momentum of the game. They make mistakes like us. It happens though. Just my opinion.

Don't mean to bark at you flounder, always respect between the two of us. I just see this a little differently than you.

Edited by Mysterio, 08 March 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[Common Sense]

Mysterio, on 08 March 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Common Sense. I always respect some of the things you say on here but perhaps you were not at that game like I was. Maybe I was not specific enough but that travel that didn't get called occurred with less than a minute to go in the game when Ottoville was tied or down by 1 I forget. So ya that could have pretty much determined the game. And it was not just the Ottoville fans saying this either. This is was no first quarter mishap. It was late in the game, so yes. My point wasn't to debate that call that happened 6 years ago just to make a point that officials do make mistakes that could cost a team the game.

And at the time, you can say that. I wasn't at the game, but I've seen many games where the whistles were swallowed late and no call was made. It happens. My point is there are dozens of other instances in the game where a call may have helped determine the outcome. Maybe Ottoville makes a few more shots in the 3rd quarter against Africentric and they are up by 5 or 6 when the girl's travel isn't called, no one cares?? Officials are not there to make the game completely fair for both teams. They call the game as it happens to the best of their ability.

[Mysterio]

Common Sense, on 08 March 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

And at the time, you can say that. I wasn't at the game, but I've seen many games where the whistles were swallowed late and no call was made. It happens. My point is there are dozens of other instances in the game where a call may have helped determine the outcome. Maybe Ottoville makes a few more shots in the 3rd quarter against Africentric and they are up by 5 or 6 when the girl's travel isn't called, no one cares?? Officials are not there to make the game completely fair for both teams. They call the game as it happens to the best of their ability.

It does I agree. I didn't mean to bring this up considering it was 6 years ago but I was just simply using it as an example. Like I said earlier, what if I told you that Ottoville played a pretty good game which they had to in order to beat Africentric? So then what? Why make the excuse for the officials that swallowed the whistle? Instead we blame the team for not playing even better? Seems more like the easy way to do it I guess. Either way you are right though Sense and I feel I am too on this. You can make the case for both while we sit here and debate this all day. It would be pointless lol. Look if you come to know me, I am not a bias fan at all. I see the game for what it is first before the way I see it as a fan.

Edited by Mysterio, 08 March 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[basketballstud]

stifler, on 08 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

400 victories and 0 state championships. Crying about fouls will set you up for defeat.Officiating usually changes down the tournament trail. A good team will adjust..So, if I was Ottoville I would adjust to the situation. I have never heard one official let alone 3 officials say that they were going to put it to a certain team. Do not cry about officiating. It makes it look like it is your first tournament run.

we did ADJUST hence the 23 point VICTORY!!!!

[govikes]

Mysterio, on 08 March 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

It's typical for a neutral fan to say that though. "Don't blame the ref when your team put themselves in that position". Sure that is the easiest thing for a neutral fan to say at that point. It seems like we are then making excuses for the officials. Sorry but if a team is playing their tails off and the game still comes down to a bad call, what's the excuse there? It's not absurd to think that the officials can't make crucial mistakes that could determine the outcome of a game. I'm not saying that it happens all the time. In fact it hardly happens. Look yes Ottoville won, I didn't care too much for the officials last night, I don't know anyone personally on that team. Just because your team wins doesn't mean you have to think the officiating was good. I have been a coach for 6 years now I believe and one thing I always say to the kids is never let the officials take control of the game. Play your best and don't ever use them as an excuse. But sometimes one call can change the momentum of the game. They make mistakes like us. It happens though. Just my opinion.

Don't mean to bark at you flounder, always respect between the two of us. I just see this a little differently than you.

Which is it?

[govikes]

Mysterio, on 08 March 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Not making excuses just a fact. I mean Leipsic made a run because 3 of Ottoville's best Seifker, Turnwald, and Mangas were on the bench with 2 fouls. I was not surprised that they made a run because of that. And sorry but we could debate this back and forth all we want but the officiating was bad lol. Elbows out by screeners? I was just simply stating that Kleman is not a type of coach that will sit there and argue with the officials but it was getting to the point where he had to. You don't know him like I do. Either way I respect your honest overall point. Ottoville was clearly the better team. But a good attempt and great season by Leipsic.

I'm confused!

[Mysterio]

stifler, on 08 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

400 victories and 0 state championships. Crying about fouls will set you up for defeat.Officiating usually changes down the tournament trail. A good team will adjust..So, if I was Ottoville I would adjust to the situation. I have never heard one official let alone 3 officials say that they were going to put it to a certain team. Do not cry about officiating. It makes it look like it is your first tournament run.

No one is crying about fouls. I thought the officiating was bad so what? A team is not going to play any worse because their fans or coaches are complaining. A coach or captain has every right to question certain calls. It's an emotional game. That emotion starts with the players and spreads throughout the gym to the coaches and fans. Coaches will do whatever it takes to stick up for their team. If you don't know that, then you obviously do not watch enough competitive sports. Like stud said, Ottoville got into foul trouble first half. Whether they were correct calls or not, they adjusted in the second half and blew them out.

Edited by Mysterio, 08 March 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[Mysterio]

govikes, on 08 March 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

I'm confused!

When I mean personally I mean like a daughter, cousin, sister, etc. I just go to the games to support. Sorry if I was not specific enough. Good game though by the way, don't mean any disrespect.

[lebron23]

stifler, on 08 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

400 victories and 0 state championships. Crying about fouls will set you up for defeat.Officiating usually changes down the tournament trail. A good team will adjust..So, if I was Ottoville I would adjust to the situation. I have never heard one official let alone 3 officials say that they were going to put it to a certain team. Do not cry about officiating. It makes it look like it is your first tournament run.

Jealousy is alive and well

[stifler]

lebron23, on 08 March 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Jealousy is alive and well

leeeebron,
Not really jealous, but just not familiar with wa wa when you win.

[Mysterio]

stifler, on 08 March 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

leeeebron, Not really jealous, but just not familiar with wa wa when you win.

Wa Wa? Didn't know that when a team wins they should praise the officials. lol Regardless it's over and done with time to move on to the regional finals.

[nwohiosportsfan]

Mysterio, on 08 March 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

No one is crying about fouls. I thought the officiating was bad so what? A team is not going to play any worse because their fans or coaches are complaining. A coach or captain has every right to question certain calls. It's an emotional game. That emotion starts with the players and spreads throughout the gym to the coaches and fans. Coaches will do whatever it takes to stick up for their team. If you don't know that, then you obviously do not watch enough competitive sports. Like stud said, Ottoville got into foul trouble first half. Whether they were correct calls or not, they adjusted in the second half and blew them out.

Mysterio, please don't encourage the players to whine to the refs during the game. Let the coach's handle that the last thing anybody wants to see is a player constantly whining to the official.

[basketballstud]

nwohiosportsfan, on 08 March 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Mysterio, please don't encourage the players to whine to the refs during the game. Let the coach's handle that the last thing anybody wants to see is a player constantly whining to the official.

Get real nwhasnoidea. The players do not whine. It is for the captains to question. Apparently you have never played because the players ask and of course the coach will always throw a fit. The refs were horrible in the 1 st half for Ottoville. Ans started out bad in second half for Leipsic. We got over it and now it is time to focus on Saturdays game vs Arcadia. Good luck girls!