99 replies to this topic

[Common Sense]

I can agree with what you are saying Dakota, but it doesn't have to be that way. As you say, it's CHOICES.

Unlike what you hear of in the media, people have more disposable income today than ever. If you don't believe me, go to a mall, movie theater or restaurant on a Friday or Saturday night. Kids used to frequent McDonal's, Burger King or other fast food or pizza places. Now they are at Outback, Applebee's and other higher profile restaurants. Many of these kids don't even have jobs. Mom and Dad simply foot the bill.
Now, what does that have to do with high school basketball, nothing. It has more to do with parenting.

Kids today do not get pushed at home. I hear too many parents say, "Oh, Johnny (or Suzy) just didn't want to play basketball anymore", I'll support whatever he (or she) wants". Now I'll agree that high school sports isn't the end all-be all, but how many of us would be sick to our stomaches if we didn't have the experience and memories of high school sports?
We've not had enough people convey this message down to their kids. We don't tell kids, "oh, it's ok if you don't study if you don't want to", or "it's ok if you don't want to work or go to Church today". Why not do that with sports??
Any kid should never be made to choose between working and sports. YOu have the rest of your life to work, you have one chance to play high school sports.

And this isn't necessarily a sports thing. Bands, choirs, just regular involvement in school activities is dropping everywhere.

I think high school sports will always be strong in the smaller rural communities. It's easy to get to, it's as inexpensive entertainment as possible, and those communities ties are so, so strong.

[bbdad]

Common Sense said: 'Kids today do not get pushed at home. I hear too many parents say, "Oh, Johnny (or Suzy) just didn't want to play basketball anymore", I'll support whatever he (or she) wants".'

and said:

"Any kid should never be made to choose between working and sports. "

But if the sport is made to be work, what then?

I don't live in the county any longer but...have two kids who played at a very high level in their sport. They had distractions too but loved their sport and felt zero obligation to play for their parents, city or school. They loved playing! And in the area of the country in which I live, MOST kids don't play a sport in high school. Somehow, someway, they survive. Had either one told me they wanted to quit I would have let them quit.

The greater number of choices available isn't necessarily the problem. It is the inability to properly choose that is the problem (as if I always made the right choice....LOL). And we have to accept that our choice may not always be their choice. As long as they can accept responsibility for the choice, and have made it with eyes wide open, they should be okay.

[erniefurgler]

<sup>How many former athletes, basketball in this discussion, stick around their hometown and help "repopulate" the talent pool at said school? I would think former players would be more inclined to be sure their sons played basketball. Would non former players? I'm a graduate of a PCL school and had 5-6 teammates in my senior class...not one of us will have a son that will play for our alma mater. More kids move away to college and it seems fewer come back to their hometown...can't necessarily blame them, with the time & money invested into college, you need to go where your degree is valued most.

Another question, are the girls programs experiencing the same issues? I was told MC is pretty thin this year, but what about other schools? Didnt OG have a numbers issue just a seaon or two ago? The O'ville thing seems quite odd in the fact that the girls program is one of the top 5 in the state over the past 20 years, yet the boys program is struggling to field a JV team??? On that note, is it true the JV are only playing 2 quarter games??</sup>

Edited by erniefurgler, 03 December 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Common Sense]

bbdad, on 03 December 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Common Sense said: 'Kids today do not get pushed at home. I hear too many parents say, "Oh, Johnny (or Suzy) just didn't want to play basketball anymore", I'll support whatever he (or she) wants".'

and said:

"Any kid should never be made to choose between working and sports. "

But if the sport is made to be work, what then?

I don't live in the county any longer but...have two kids who played at a very high level in their sport. They had distractions too but loved their sport and felt zero obligation to play for their parents, city or school. They loved playing! And in the area of the country in which I live, MOST kids don't play a sport in high school. Somehow, someway, they survive. Had either one told me they wanted to quit I would have let them quit.

The greater number of choices available isn't necessarily the problem. It is the inability to properly choose that is the problem (as if I always made the right choice....LOL). And we have to accept that our choice may not always be their choice. As long as they can accept responsibility for the choice, and have made it with eyes wide open, they should be okay.

But you didn't have that decision to make. You can honestly say that if your child was good at a particular sport, and you lived in that community for a long time, the kid played, elementary, jr. high as a starter, used up playing time, you'd just let them walk away in their sophomore year because it's got tougher, or they'd rather socialize more, etc????? I certainly hope not! My point is that kids 14-15-16 years old don't make good decisions, and today we just allow kids to make life altering decisions, and we just let them do it.
I've seen and heard too many kids who are 20-25 years old regret that they didn't do more in high school. I rarely hear someone who looks back now and wishes they didn't do so much in school.

[Mysterio]

Common Sense I agree with your last part of that comment. I'll be honest I quit a sport my sophomore year mainly to focus more on another sport. Do I regret quitting that other sport today? Absolutely.

I think it's absurd to sit here and blame a community or to blame a high school student on their decisions. As a coach, you need to do what it takes to get kids motivated. Sometimes you may have to change the way you normally do things in order to get numbers. If you don't, then you won't have a team which means you won't be coaching. I understand people will say that a coach should never have to change the way he or she does things in order for a kid to play. If you want kids to play or stay motivated you might have to. Besides maybe part of it has to do with kids and trying to find time to work during school. Who knows? If a kid doesn't want to play for a certain coach, that is their choice. And that goes back to me saying that a coach just may have to change the way they do things. But let's not sit here and criticize a community as if some of you know a thing or to about them.

[Maltese Falcon]

Yes, yes and yes........the are a combination of reasons fro the numbers decline in PCL and surrounding schools, an aging population due to young people moving away (and the ones staying having smaller families) translates into lower enrollment numbers. Mix that with more options for kids and the days of having a full freshman, JV and varsity are coming to an end and numbers will continue to decrease. It is too bad because there are still a number of student athletes willing to put in the time and commitment that it takes for a team to succeed.

[Common Sense]

Mysterio, on 03 December 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Common Sense I agree with your last part of that comment. I'll be honest I quit a sport my sophomore year mainly to focus more on another sport. Do I regret quitting that other sport today? Absolutely.

I think it's absurd to sit here and blame a community or to blame a high school student on their decisions. As a coach, you need to do what it takes to get kids motivated. Sometimes you may have to change the way you normally do things in order to get numbers. If you don't, then you won't have a team which means you won't be coaching. I understand people will say that a coach should never have to change the way he or she does things in order for a kid to play. If you want kids to play or stay motivated you might have to. Besides maybe part of it has to do with kids and trying to find time to work during school. Who knows? If a kid doesn't want to play for a certain coach, that is their choice. And that goes back to me saying that a coach just may have to change the way they do things. But let's not sit here and criticize a community as if some of you know a thing or to about them.

Actually, I blame the parent, not the community. I honestly think kids should WANT to play for their school and community. Is there anything that can make you more proud than representing your school and community in athletic events? It sounds corny but do we have that anymore? Or is it more about what's in it for me? I don't want to practice everyday, I want to spend time with my friends. There is no doubt the coach has a huge impact in getting kids to play for them, but today, many coaches are not teachers, they are not in the school everyday, seeing that kid and encouraging them to do all they can. Heck, we have so many high school kids going to local colleges taking classes during the day, there isn't even that classmate connection anymore. That's a complaint for another day.
What if that kid doesn't want to play for a coach? Or doesn't want to play with that other kid? Do you think they are going to always like their boss later in life, or their co-workers??? Of course not, but many just allow their kids to walk away.

[Common Sense]

erniefurgler, on 03 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

<sup>How many former athletes, basketball in this discussion, stick around their hometown and help "repopulate" the talent pool at said school? I would think former players would be more inclined to be sure their sons played basketball. Would non former players? I'm a graduate of a PCL school and had 5-6 teammates in my senior class...not one of us will have a son that will play for our alma mater. More kids move away to college and it seems fewer come back to their hometown...can't necessarily blame them, with the time & money invested into college, you need to go where your degree is valued most.

Another question, are the girls programs experiencing the same issues? I was told MC is pretty thin this year, but what about other schools? Didnt OG have a numbers issue just a seaon or two ago? The O'ville thing seems quite odd in the fact that the girls program is one of the top 5 in the state over the past 20 years, yet the boys program is struggling to field a JV team??? On that note, is it true the JV are only playing 2 quarter games??</sup>

Believe me, there is nothing wrong with kids going away to college and not moving back into the community. Actually, that's probably the way it should be. If you go to college, you look to get into a field that more than likely puts you into bigger cities for jobs. But there are still,even in the small schools, alot of kids roaming the hallways not doing anything.

And actually with the girls, it's even worse. Many teams have less than 15 kids varsity and JV combined, some don't even have enough for Jv games. You would think with this generation of parents, directly affected by Title XI, that you'd have more female athletes, and it just has not happened. Again, I think you especially see the girls parents almost celebrate when Suzy says she doesn't want to play basketball anymore.

[HRC]

Common Sense,

I don't think you are taking into consideration that High School sports, especially basketball, has turned into a 12 month sport. The students don't have time to go on family vacations or even get a summer job. By talking to many athletes, this is why they consider basketball to be their least favorite sport.

Years back you never had the open gyms, camps, mandatory workouts, etc. It has gotten so bad that there are a few schools mandating that there will be absolutely no "practice" of any kind during certain parts of the summer.

On a side note, I feel this is why ACME baseball is going by the wayside. If an athlete has to choose between an ACME game or a basketball practice, they feel they must go to basketball or fear getting punished by the basketball coach.

As someone earlier said, a coach must be a motivator. The days of throwing the balls out on the gym floor and expecting the kids to bust their butt for you is over. You must make the kids want to play for you. (Continental - Homier).

Just my thoughts on it.

[Common Sense]

HRC, on 03 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Common Sense,

I don't think you are taking into consideration that High School sports, especially basketball, has turned into a 12 month sport. The students don't have time to go on family vacations or even get a summer job. By talking to many athletes, this is why they consider basketball to be their least favorite sport.

Years back you never had the open gyms, camps, mandatory workouts, etc. It has gotten so bad that there are a few schools mandating that there will be absolutely no "practice" of any kind during certain parts of the summer.

On a side note, I feel this is why ACME baseball is going by the wayside. If an athlete has to choose between an ACME game or a basketball practice, they feel they must go to basketball or fear getting punished by the basketball coach.

As someone earlier said, a coach must be a motivator. The days of throwing the balls out on the gym floor and expecting the kids to bust their butt for you is over. You must make the kids want to play for you. (Continental - Homier).

Just my thoughts on it.

HRC, I'm not going to say that (mandatory summer participation) doesn't happen. But theoretically, there are only so many kids at these smaller schools. You can mandate all you want, but at the end of the day, if you need kids and they show up on Oct. 14, you'll take them. And I don't buy that it's a 12 month sports. As a coach if you see that much talent leaving, you'll adjust than to go with lesser talent and lose, believe me.
And I do agree with you on the the baseball thoughts. We've turned basketball and football into predominant sports in the summer, when it should be baseball. Basketball team camps and football 7/7's rule the summer anymore.

[fanofthegame]

erniefurgler, on 03 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

^{How many former athletes, basketball in this discussion, stick around their hometown and help "repopulate" the talent pool at said school? I would think former players would be more inclined to be sure their sons played basketball. Would non former players? I'm a graduate of a PCL school and had 5-6 teammates in my senior class...not one of us will have a son that will play for our alma mater. More kids move away to college and it seems fewer come back to their hometown...can't necessarily blame them, with the time & money invested into college, you need to go where your degree is valued most.}

Great point.

My kids have commented on how goofy i look in them short shorts on the team photos of years past dotting the school hallways.
Yet i sense the hometown pride in the way they approach their school be it in the classroom are in a sport.

There is a price tag to chasing that dollar.

HRC, on 03 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

The days of throwing the balls out on the gym floor and expecting the kids to bust their butt for you is over. You must make the kids want to play for you. (Continental - Homier).

spot on.

[419WinnerSwag]

continental with 4 losses!? NO WAY IN HELL

[buckeyes_0]

Seems like were getting a little off topic here? Put cyo on another thread... with that being said even though no PCL games have been played what are there records going into week 2 of basketball

[Green seagull 20]

buckeyes_0, on 05 December 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Seems like were getting a little off topic here? Put cyo on another thread... with that being said even though no PCL games have been played what are there records going into week 2 of basketball

Kalida 1-1
Continental 1-1
Ottoville 1-0
FJ 0-2
Grove 1-0
Pandora won one game don't know if that's all they played so far or not
Haven't caught any wind from leipsic yet

[erniefurgler]

MC 1-0

Leipsic 1-0

[Common Sense]

Green seagull 20, on 16 November 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

As of now they do not have a jv team according to sources!

I noticed that in Ottoville's first boys game, they played 2 quarters of the JV game. Guess that's better than nothing.

[Green seagull 20]

Common Sense, on 05 December 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

I noticed that in Ottoville's first boys game, they played 2 quarters of the JV game. Guess that's better than nothing.

I heard that's what their doing for the whole year

[NW Ohio Guy]

wow! I can see MC with the numbers problems but Ottoville? ottoville is that much smaller than Continental and P-G, who are the same size. I know they arent having those problems. What about Fort Jennings, are they having to only have varsity squads as well?

I know theres been people saying schools should consolidate, which financially they should have becuase there are $20 million schools just miles apart from each other, i know small schools do better than larger school and im a supporter of the small schools, but what if schools went together for just sports in the county...(i know it wont happen -for atleast a LONG time anyway) How would that go? MC/Leipsic Pandora/Grove Ottoville/FJ Kalida/Continental?

[Maltese Falcon]

NW Ohio Guy, on 10 December 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

wow! I can see MC with the numbers problems but Ottoville? ottoville is that much smaller than Continental and P-G, who are the same size. I know they arent having those problems. What about Fort Jennings, are they having to only have varsity squads as well? I know theres been people saying schools should consolidate, which financially they should have becuase there are $20 million schools just miles apart from each other, i know small schools do better than larger school and im a supporter of the small schools, but what if schools went together for just sports in the county...(i know it wont happen -for atleast a LONG time anyway) How would that go? MC/Leipsic Pandora/Grove Ottoville/FJ Kalida/Continental?

Miller City, Continental and Ft. Jennings do not have numbers problems, all 3 schools have freshman teams. This seems to only be a problem at Ottoville at the present time.

[omniscient1]

Maltese Falcon, on 10 October 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

I am an OG fan, but I enjoy following the Putnam County League..........but will have to say this may as bad as the PCL has ever been. Heck it wasn't any good last year.

hmmmm... maybe the PCL wasn't so bad this year?