411 replies to this topic

[Putnam County Lady]

Times have change.Is it fair to compare records of today with those before the three point line was put in, or when jumpballs were actually jumped up, or the key was smaller, or the basket was actually a peach basket with those of today????
Ten years from now the kids playing won't know or care if Hiland or Elida had kids that transferred or were unworthy of playing. They will simply read in the OHSAA program that they made it to the state basketball tournament.

[slice slice baby]

Putnam County Lady, on 02 April 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Ten years from now the kids playing won't know or care if Hiland or Elida had kids that transferred or were unworthy of playing. They will simply read in the OHSAA program that they made it to the state basketball tournament.

touch`e....rather right or wrong

[falconfan84]

Putnam County Lady, on 02 April 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Times have change.Is it fair to compare records of today with those before the three point line was put in, or when jumpballs were actually jumped up, or the key was smaller, or the basket was actually a peach basket with those of today????
Ten years from now the kids playing won't know or care if Hiland or Elida had kids that transferred or were unworthy of playing. They will simply read in the OHSAA program that they made it to the state basketball tournament.

The sad thing is, many teams will never be remembered for what they could have, or should have, accomplished...because of the practices of some schools that accepted transfers to get them the "glory" they will now be remembered for.

[Putnam County Lady]

My point is that our grandfathers records would still be intact and others would have enjoyed success in the game of basketball would not have changed.
Basketball has been changing for years and will continue to do so in the future.

[effingA]

I doubt Elida had a decline in attendance.

And I certainly don't see how riding a bike in a marathon compares unless the organizers of the marathon, the OHSAA, said it was legal: like they did for all those transfers competing for their new schools.

[Dman]

Nobody argues the game and circumstances surrounding the game are not changing. Part of that change is the fact that the casual fan is going away. Only those that have skin in the game support their team in any numbers. First timers and relative newbies have a fan base. Chronic players in the "manufactured team" market see their supporters dwindling. The emotional attachment to these teams is on life support. See Dunbar or Africentric... Even their own fan bases are limited.

Worrying about what those reading the program believe misses the bigger point. Our fathers and those before them had a lot more people buying and reading those programs. They don't even sell programs at the AAU tournament. Often a kid at the AAU tournament chooses his team the day of...

It took baseball decades to go from "America's Game" to some place around MMA and NASCAR. I would hate to see basketball trend the same. But you would have to have your head in the sand to not see the attendance trends and apathy magnitudes.

[Dman]

effingA, on 02 April 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

And I certainly don't see how riding a bike in a marathon compares unless the organizers of the marathon, the OHSAA, said it was legal: like they did for all those transfers competing for their new schools.

Now you are just playing dumb for the sake of it. Your contention has been that it is unfair to judge different accomplishments accordingly. This is a silly and indefensible position. Major League Baseball never punished Barry Bonds. Society judges his accomplishments differently because of the means he utilized to achieve his success. Society does not judge an "A" in Math II the same as an "A" in Calculus...even if you want to argue and honestly believe they SHOULD. What these two, of countless examples demonstrate is that how you achieve success matters to society...as does the difficulty of the path you take.

Your contention that "transfer" assisted teams should be judged equally to teams that DO NOT utilize transfers is not based on any empirical observations of typical sociological behaviors. You can individually believe what you want. But the masses WILL judge accomplishments based on the difficulty of the task AND the means utilized to accomplish the task.

[slice slice baby]

Dman, on 02 April 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Nobody argues the game and circumstances surrounding the game are not changing. Part of that change is the fact that the casual fan is going away. Only those that have skin in the game support their team in any numbers. First timers and relative newbies have a fan base. Chronic players in the "manufactured team" market see their supporters dwindling. The emotional attachment to these teams is on life support. See Dunbar or Africentric... Even their own fan bases are limited.

Worrying about what those reading the program believe misses the bigger point. Our fathers and those before them had a lot more people buying and reading those programs. They don't even sell programs at the AAU tournament. Often a kid at the AAU tournament chooses his team the day of...

It took baseball decades to go from "America's Game" to some place around MMA and NASCAR. I would hate to see basketball trend the same. But you would have to have your head in the sand to not see the attendance trends and apathy magnitudes.

this is why dman is da man! always.....

[flounder]

slice slice baby, on 02 April 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

this is why dman is da man! always.....

Brown Noser!!!!!!

[slice slice baby]

haha! puuuuh-leeze! do a post search on you......



lol

[paperboy]

OK, I'll ask it again...

Dman: If a local high school power that has won multiple state titles in the past decade did so a couple times with an open-enroller from another district, is that school and its titles automatically tainted in your eyes?

[flounder]

slice slice baby, on 02 April 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

haha! puuuuh-leeze! do a post search on you......



lol

I think it is good to see you out making the rounds again....people really missed you because you are such a nice person and very good mod....you cheer people up...good to have you back slicer!!!!!!

[Common Sense]

Putnam County Lady, on 02 April 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Times have change.Is it fair to compare records of today with those before the three point line was put in, or when jumpballs were actually jumped up, or the key was smaller, or the basket was actually a peach basket with those of today???? Ten years from now the kids playing won't know or care if Hiland or Elida had kids that transferred or were unworthy of playing. They will simply read in the OHSAA program that they made it to the state basketball tournament.

The kids playing won't know. But the hundreds of loyal fans from those communities know the details of the teams that made it to that level. They know who was on those teams and how they got there.

[falconfan84]

Bottom Line...INTEGRITY means something, whether it is recognized or not.


We ARE losing our integrity...PERIOD!

[Putnam County Lady]

I probably not a loyal fan but I don't remember who won the State Tournament games 10 years ago or if any of the winners had move in or not.

My point to Dman is that you use the thesaurus and right a Master's thesis about morals, integrity, etc. but your own head coach was going to do what you so deeply dislike by transferring his own son if he would have gotten the CG job.

Also how about all the guys who played when there were only A and AA tournaments? You think they might believe its easier to when a Championship in current times especially if you were a small school back then??
Times and the game has evolved and will continue to do so in the future.

[Rocketman]

paperboy, on 02 April 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

OK, I'll ask it again...

Dman: If a local high school power that has won multiple state titles in the past decade did so a couple times with an open-enroller from another district, is that school and its titles automatically tainted in your eyes?

[Rocketman]

PB,
The only local school that I can think of that has won multiple titles in the last decade is ottawa. I don't believe they had any transfers.......Also delphos saint johns has won multiple titles in football.....transfers?

[effingA]

Dman - you write well and you give "countless" examples of how society thinks So bear with me.... based on on your societal views, a D4 state title is "valued" less than a D1 state title. They travel the same path - one is easier If you assume the athletes in general are better at the higher level ... ala Calclulus over Math II. You can apply this to the NCAA's as well: a DIII schools championship vs a DI championship. Here's another example, I doubt that there is any asterisk beside ONU's National Basketball Championship that they won back in the 90's and I doubt anyone thinks less of their program, school, coach, or players.... because the only way they won that title was when, not 1 but 2 transfers showed up on campus: D'Artis Jones and Aaron Madry. Doesn't matter why they ended up there but they did and ONU won a championship. Is the title tainted? Does society judge them lesser because they chose to play kids who did not start in their program? The NCAA, like the OHSAA, has transfer rules and if they meet those standards, they're eligible... period.

[paperboy]

It's football and it's a public school.

[Dman]

Putnam County Lady, on 03 April 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

My point to Dman is that you use the thesaurus and right a Master's thesis about morals, integrity, etc. but your own head coach was going to do what you so deeply dislike by transferring his own son if he would have gotten the CG job.

A thesaurus won't help you, but a decent dictionary could advise the correct use of "write" versus "right.". As for the scary obsession with Coach Smith, whom you never miss an opportunity to discredit, safe to say we can join forces and point out his use of transfers when and IF it happens. Until then, the normal unobsessed response to this discussion would be to utilize coaching examples of those who have actually done that which you find unsettling.

But then again...if your point is that utilizing transfers is a decent and inevitable endeavor, then one would think your voodoo insight to Coach Smith's "could have been" actions are a golden reflection on the man.

As a fan of Delphos Jefferson and Coach Smith...I thank you for the high regard...