411 replies to this topic

[falconfan84]

Common Sense, on 25 March 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

That's one of the great things about Garber, he's from a very small school and has lifted that program. The other great thing is that he also plays football, baseball and track for Vanlue. In this day of single-sport athletes, it's refreshing to see multi-sport athletes.

Absolutely! We see less of this all the time. Second on my list behind transferring, is concentrating on a single sport when kids are talented enough to contribute to other sports for their school. I know it boils down to money in the end (scholarships and dreams of turning pro), but the truth is the odds of little Johnny getting that full ride scholarship or making a profession out of that sport are so tiny that it probably would do everybody involved more good to let them/us enjoy the talents they have for the short time they will get to display them (4 years at most in high school).

[Rocketman]

Mealer...........Mealer?

after spending his first two years in the far, far NW reaches of Ohio, Blake Mealer meandered down to LB with the help of the Ridgerunners over that way.
and I'm sure if he dug a little more we would find many more..........RM


but of course this is a thread about the 'Lue and not about LB.........

[falconfan84]

It is too bad that Vanlue has so much turmoil in the administration. Sometimes you just wonder if they'd be better off consolidating or being absorbed into other districts (because of their size limitations and because of these late examples)...

...BUT...it's the times when Vanlue puts together successful teams, or turns out a great athlete (think Rod Rose here), when you really have to feel good for them and root for them. It's tough for the little guy (schools), and it makes it tougher when they can't attract athletes the same way that a school that has more to offer can. With limited curriculum, due to small class sizes, how can they year-in and year-out? It saddens me to hear a great talent may leave a school he brings so much to. It may not affect most other schools as much as it will affect Vanlue. High school sports are usually cyclical, but we are seeing less of that when it is so easy to leave for greener pastures. This really has a big effect on the schools that these kids are leaving.

[falconfan84]

Rocketman, on 25 March 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Mealer...........Mealer?

after spending his first two years in the far, far NW reaches of Ohio, Blake Mealer meandered down to LB with the help of the Ridgerunners over that way.
and I'm sure if he dug a little more we would find many more..........RM


but of course this is a thread about the 'Lue and not about LB.........

Yep, Mealer. I've also heard he got to drive around in a Camaro for going out for basketball. Go ahead and tell me that sports aren't a big deal to the parents.

[Common Sense]

rallyinthe9th, on 25 March 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

I don't those comments made either Williman or Vermillion look bad. If he really got fired for performance, that is such a complete joke. They have a very good record over the past 5 years. That is not coincidence. They have had some talent, but coaches develop that talent. I have seen many talented eighth grade kids go to schools that don't develop talent and never improve. Kids must be drilled and coached and from all accounts, this coach did that.

I can honestly say I don't think I have ever heard of a coach going 17-4 getting fired for not performing. I understand there was an early tournament loss, but that happens sometimes. Vanlue is a little, little school and from what I was told had some holes in the team. Good programs like Ada can sometimes take advantage of that. This is probably the most head scratching firing I have ever seen.

I'm going to state this and I don't want in any way to short Vanlue on their recent success. But as we all know records can be deceiving, and this is a perfect example. While Vanlue has had excellent records of the past few years, let's look at their schedule. And by all means, they should play this type of schedule, you don't want to load up and set yourself up for a 5-15 season when the talent disappears. But what's Vanlue's record against winning programs the last few years, against the top 2-3 teams in the conference the past few years. There are alot of St. Wendelin's, Old Fort's, Ridgemont's and USV's on the schedule. Add to that a BVC who had 4 good teams, but otherwise a down season overall for the league. With that team, they could have won 15 games just showing up. You get into a sectional with Ada, Arlington, Columbus Grove and company, it's a whole new ballgame.

[paperboy]

Dman, on 25 March 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

I feel 180 degrees paperboy. I applaud the coach for having the courage to speak up.

I'll give him courageous but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

Dman, on 25 March 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

It is the superintendents resposibility to set aside personal differences to assure the kids have the best staff possible. In this case the supeintendent let his ego run a known sucess.

That is certainly how things appear, but I prefer to know all the facts before stating an opinion on a situation (and place) that I know nothing about.

[tiffindude3313]

Very few teams play 20 games of 'quality competition" during the season, so Common Sense, I am not sure your argument is totally valid. Correct me if I am wrong, but they beat Arlington by 1 this year, who ended up at the state semis. Was also told they played Jackson Center in the summer and beat them (however the level of summer ball is played...I realize that). I am just saying that their competition hasn't been all that bad.

[PostPlayer]

Nothing like waking up and reading some fresh news on LB recruiting. I am over it, but boy when / if another BVC team lands a "move-in" and makes LB less relevant...Cubbie will be on here spouting I can gaurantee it.

As for now, I will just sit and read and continue to reminisce (sp?) about Arlingtons girls state championship and boys state semi-final games

[Common Sense]

tiffindude3313, on 26 March 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

Very few teams play 20 games of 'quality competition" during the season, so Common Sense, I am not sure your argument is totally valid. Correct me if I am wrong, but they beat Arlington by 1 this year, who ended up at the state semis. Was also told they played Jackson Center in the summer and beat them (however the level of summer ball is played...I realize that). I am just saying that their competition hasn't been all that bad.

Understood, and as I said, this is the schedule Vanlue should be playing, but it's still not a strong schedule, you've got to admit that. Summer ball??? Shortened game, no fouls accumulate, no one and one, completely different basketball game. Going into the season, 17-4 was probably the minimum of what their record should have been.

[roarintiger1]

I really don't think that Vanlue needs a tougher football schedule...

BTW, When talking about L-B, the last name of Crawford comes to mind.....they were also Vanlue folks to start with.

Also, I see nothing wrong with families moving in to a better school district and who become a part of the whole system, both athletically and academically. It's the ones who don't really ever move in, don't support the whole school system, and basically are there because the grass looks greener and because little Johnny or Sally can't get along where they are at.

[Dman]

Quote

Great post, thanks for the truth, a few people who post on here do not know the facts and judge kids to much without the proper info.

For me personally, this argument does not make sense. I don't believe ANYBODY should blame the kids. I sometimes question the adults around programs, but even that is tongue in cheek. The part that is a bit farcical is to watch fan reaction to these transfer situations. Hiland is a perfect example. The simple truth is that Hiland does not make Columbus this year, let alone win it, without the transfer. That is the truth without judgement. But if Hiland fan is like everybody else's fans (see Ada, Elida, etc) the mere mention of this reality leads to comical defense mechanisms. It is as if the "fanatic" part of fan makes it impossible to accept and admit this truth.

The ways and means Arlington/Jackson Center used to achieve their successes this year are NOT the same as Hiland. While I'm certain traditional means to success such as hard work, talent, etc are a part of both programs, and certainly worthy of respect...it is unrealistic to ask any objective observer to look at both situations in the same light. Had the same transfer went to either of the other two programs, we are talking about a different state champion today.

To minimize the absolute importance that even ONE transfer contributes to a team's success is the proverbial dunking of head into the sand. This case is exhibit A of that reality. More important than hard work, talent, coaching, etc was transferring. This does not mean that Hiland did not have plenty of the former...they did. But without the latter, it was not enough. One need only look to Arlington and Jackson Center to see that truth. It is this final truth that appears so difficult to accept for fans close to the situation. They still want to wrongly assert that the traditional means of hard work, team work, coaching, talent are THE only reason(s) they achieve their success. This is not reality no matter how many messengers they attack or straw men they construct.

Nobody says that what Hiland/Elida/Ada/etc accomplished this year is not worthy of respect/accolade. All these communities have a lot to be proud of. But none of these programs achieved their successes via ONLY traditional attributes associated with winning championships. Supplementation (probably all of it perfectly legal) was a key component to their successes. In the case of Hiland and Elida...neither make it to Columbus without supplements. It is for this reason that it is perfectly understandable how some fans of a program like Arlington might openly hope that they too could attract appropriate athletic supplementation(s). It often only takes one to make a HUGE difference.

[falconfan84]

roarintiger1, on 26 March 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Also, I see nothing wrong with families moving in to a better school district and who become a part of the whole system, both athletically and academically. It's the ones who don't really ever move in, don't support the whole school system, and basically are there because the grass looks greener and because little Johnny or Sally can't get along where they are at.

Dman, on 26 March 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

For me personally, this argument does not make sense. I don't believe ANYBODY should blame the kids. I sometimes question the adults around programs, but even that is tongue in cheek. The part that is a bit farcical is to watch fan reaction to these transfer situations. Hiland is a perfect example. The simple truth is that Hiland does not make Columbus this year, let alone win it, without the transfer. That is the truth without judgement. But if Hiland fan is like everybody else's fans (see Ada, Elida, etc) the mere mention of this reality leads to comical defense mechanisms. It is as if the "fanatic" part of fan makes it impossible to accept and admit this truth.

The ways and means Arlington/Jackson Center used to achieve their successes this year are NOT the same as Hiland. While I'm certain traditional means to success such as hard work, talent, etc are a part of both programs, and certainly worthy of respect...it is unrealistic to ask any objective observer to look at both situations in the same light. Had the same transfer went to either of the other two programs, we are talking about a different state champion today.

To minimize the absolute importance that even ONE transfer contributes to a team's success is the proverbial dunking of head into the sand. This case is exhibit A of that reality. More important than hard work, talent, coaching, etc was transferring. This does not mean that Hiland did not have plenty of the former...they did. But without the latter, it was not enough. One need only look to Arlington and Jackson Center to see that truth. It is this final truth that appears so difficult to accept for fans close to the situation. They still want to wrongly assert that the traditional means of hard work, team work, coaching, talent are THE only reason(s) they achieve their success. This is not reality no matter how many messengers they attack or straw men they construct.

Nobody says that what Hiland/Elida/Ada/etc accomplished this year is not worthy of respect/accolade. All these communities have a lot to be proud of. But none of these programs achieved their successes via ONLY traditional attributes associated with winning championships. Supplementation (probably all of it perfectly legal) was a key component to their successes. In the case of Hiland and Elida...neither make it to Columbus without supplements. It is for this reason that it is perfectly understandable how some fans of a program like Arlington might openly hope that they too could attract appropriate athletic supplementation(s). It often only takes one to make a HUGE difference.

Two GREAT posts!!!

[effingA]

Dman - "traditional" is in the eyes of the beholder. I just wished DJ could pass a levy so maybe, just maybe, it would be a school district worth transferring to. Times are changing and schools have to compete for students... it doesn't matter if it's athletically or academically. It's not the schools fault, it's society's fault. So quit picking on the ones who have benefitted from this change in society. What is a school to do? Garber wants to come to your school but the school says "no" because someone on Rocketcorner says it's not "traditional". Right....

Edited by effingA, 26 March 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[cubbies4life]

PostPlayer, on 26 March 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Nothing like waking up and reading some fresh news on LB recruiting. I am over it, but boy when / if another BVC team lands a "move-in" and makes LB less relevant...Cubbie will be on here spouting I can gaurantee it.

As for now, I will just sit and read and continue to reminisce (sp?) about Arlingtons girls state championship and boys state semi-final games

Could care less about all of this. Amusing to say the least. And congrats to Arlington to both the gals and dudes. Once the tournaments start, we all should root for the conference teams.

[cubbies4life]

effingA, on 26 March 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Dman - "traditional" is in the eyes of the beholder. I just wished DJ could pass a levy so maybe, just maybe, it would be a school district worth transferring to. Times are changing and schools have to compete for students... it doesn't matter if it's athletically or academically. It's not the schools fault, it's society's fault. So quit picking on the ones who have benefitted from this change in society. What is a school to do? Garber wants to come to your school but the school says "no" because someone on Rocketcorner says it's not "traditional". Right....

Amen brother.

[cubbies4life]

Rocketman, on 25 March 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Mealer...........Mealer?

after spending his first two years in the far, far NW reaches of Ohio, Blake Mealer meandered down to LB with the help of the Ridgerunners over that way.
and I'm sure if he dug a little more we would find many more..........RM


but of course this is a thread about the 'Lue and not about LB.........

Have him dig, let us know what he finds.

[Dman]

Quote

So quit picking on the ones who have benefitted from this change in society.

This quote would be good example of what I mean when I say the part that is a bit farcical is to watch fan reaction to these transfer situations. Nobody has picked on anybody. Just the truth...

• The simple truth is that Hiland does not make Columbus this year, let alone win it, without the transfer. That is the truth without judgement.

What effingA and so many others before him really mean to say is "quit telling the truth about how MY TEAM achieves success." Watching fanatics mince definitions is exactly what I mean by farcical. In this particular case effingA and others want the traditional respect and accolades that come with winning championships, games, conferences, etc. But they want no part of the traditional methodology teams have always used to achieve that respect and accolade. He is correct when he asserts that society is changing. I make no present judgement as to the righteousness of these changing methodologies, though my opinions are known. What he fails to recognize, along with so many other fans, coaches, administrations, etc is that paralleling these changing methodologies is a changing respect and accolade for the achievements themselves. Winning a state championship does not mean as much as it used to. This accomplishment has been watered down via the "changing society" he speaks about. Now that so many coaches, fans, players, etc are willing to accept, endorse, and utilize athletic transfers as modus operandi, the accomplishment is simply not of the magnitude it was traditionally. On the contrary, those schools, coaches, and administrations who utilize traditional methods to achieve success (Arlington, Ottawa, Jackson Center) deservedly find themselves the benefit of exponential respect and accolade as we are all aware of the difficulty succeeding in this "changing society" has become.

Quote

Dman - "traditional" is in the eyes of the beholder.

No it isn't. The definition of traditional is usual or established. We know that you yourself understand that teams utilizing transfers is a relatively new phenomenon. Otherwise you would not point out "times are changing."

Edited by Dman, 26 March 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[Dman]

Quote

I just wished DJ could pass a levy so maybe, just maybe, it would be a school district worth transferring to.

He swings...he misses! Delphos Jefferson is rated Excellent by the state. Vanlue is just Effective.

Quote

it doesn't matter if it's athletically or academically

Apparently rules are in the eye of the beholder for you too. Transferring for athletic purposes is prohibited per the OHSAA guidelines.

[Northwestsports]

cubbies4life, on 26 March 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Could care less about all of this. Amusing to say the least. And congrats to Arlington to both the gals and dudes. Once the tournaments start, we all should root for the conference teams.

I'm not sure cubbie but I get the feeling rocket has a dislike for the Evil Empire over here in West Findlay. He makes me laugh when gets on LB.

[Corleone]

falconfan84, on 25 March 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Yep, Mealer. I've also heard he got to drive around in a Camaro for going out for basketball. Go ahead and tell me that sports aren't a big deal to the parents.

You really just need to stop....please. For your own sake. Each post just shows more ignorance. How about commenting on something where you actually know the facts?