299 replies to this topic

[RonnyD]

Dman, on 29 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

No way of knowing... We can make a good guess about motives by seeing how the current suspension plays out. If he sits the kid for the next 3 games, safe to say that discipline is an important factor. If the kid only misses one easy game AGAIN...

If one game was the punishment for a one day school suspension...we can only imagine that consistency dictates the repeat offense and 3 day school suspension will demand a much greater punishment than 1 game this time.

Dman, on 06 March 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

If this is true, which I doubt... The magnitude of Elida's athletic penalty system falls somewhere between the NBA and SMU football circa 1985. I'm not certain I can recall ANY example of an athlete, at ANY level going from jail to game participation in a week's time.

I can't even imagine how much fun it would be to be in the opposing student cheering section the next decade IF this is allowed to happen. Quick...somebody open up a costume shop and stock the black/white striped suits in EVERY WBL town. Handcuff's, iPads...the list of props for any decent pep section is limitless. RM will have to start a new Elida joke forum to handle the volume.

P.S. There is no way this happens. Some adults/authority...somewhere will put the school's integrity above a basketball game.

P.P.S. If I were LCC fan...I would not say a word. If you let this play out as the quote above suggests...you've received your lifetime "get out of jail (pun intended) free" card. Any time the Thunderbirds are being blamed for global warming, gas prices, etc...you need only reply... "At least we are not Elida!"

Sooo...

First you say a three game suspension would be sufficient, and would show that "discipline is an important factor" to Elida's coach/school/etc. Now, after it has been realized the suspension WILL IN FACT be for three games, and will be lifted after the three games should Elida advance, it shows the moral decay of the Elida coach/school system/etc.

Sounds like someone can't make up their mind.

[RonnyD]

Let's consider also for a second the fact that he was suspended for three tournament games. Effectively, this means had Elida lost, or does lose, one of the three, this young man would have had his high school career ended by way of discipline.

Not saying anything is right or wrong, but can't we stop with the sensationalistic views on everything?

[78vette]

he has been suspended from school for 3 days, the punishment a non athlete would suffer and along with that has missed 3 tourney games but that is not enough punishment. how much more punishment do all the people who have never broken any laws{speeding,etc}using employers supplies for personal use or any other transgression feel he deserves?

[RealitySpeaks]

What's wrong with having something end as a result of discipline? Let's see... Pete Rose's baseball career ENDED as a result of discipline. Tyrell Pryor's college football career ENDED as a result of discipline. Lance Armstrong's cycling career ENDED as a result of discipline. Should I go on? If something doesn't END as a result of discipline, then there is no deterrent to repeating the offense in the first place.

Can't we stop with the socially destructive liberal views on everything?

[RonnyD]

RealitySpeaks, on 06 March 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

What's wrong with having something end as a result of discipline? Let's see... Pete Rose's baseball career ENDED as a result of discipline. Tyrell Pryor's college football career ENDED as a result of discipline. Lance Armstrong's cycling career ENDED as a result of discipline. Should I go on? If something doesn't END as a result of discipline, then there is no deterrent to repeating the offense in the first place. Can't we stop with the socially destructive liberal views on everything?

Did I say it is/would be wrong if his career ended by way of discipline? I am merely insinuating, to those who are taking some high and mighty moral ground here that the school has not punished this young man enough, that it seems Elida has handed down a pretty severe punishment. Be it three games, or again, in effect, the end to his high school basketball career, it seems to me the consequences were harsh enough.

And might I add, I am NO liberal. I have a hard enough time putting the words "I" and "liberal" in the same sentence, let along sharing those views.

Edited by RonnyD, 06 March 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[Dman]

RonnyD:

On Feb 29th I was not aware (was anybody?) that the kid was put in jail. This conversation was about school punishment. Three games was a guess based upon the prior one game suspension. Once he went to jail, safe to say that things would/should be looked at differently. His basketball career ended the day he went to jail.

Knowing what we know today March 26th 2012... There is no way that the adults in authority can allow this kid to play another game for Elida. Even if you somehow believe that jail should not preclude one's participation in extracurricular activities...the public relations involved in suiting up a convict are too much to overcome.

For the record, it is typically normal for people to change their minds when additional evidence becomes available. I'm not sure what your stance is...besides objecting to my views. But if you contention is that a convict ought to be able to represent Elida by playing in an extracurricular basketball game...come out and say it.

[4sportstruthonly]

First of all, LCC fans should not say a word, that would be hypocritical. The main punishment carried out to this student came before he was a student at Elida. His punishment for his crime of I believe cheating, is the crime being punished. I believe there is a player on LCC's B-team that has quite a horrific criminal record, kicked out of a couple schools, and LCC still took him. He continued his bad behavior and with little consequences. So morally, Elida has done punishment according to their stated rules. LCC morals, questionable.

[Dman]

Quote

high and mighty moral ground here that the school has not punished this young man enough

Believing a convict should not represent a school in an extracurricular activity is "high and mighty"? I surmise that if conviction and jail time do not meet one's threshold for accepting and agreeing with removal from an extracurricular team...there is simply no circumstance for which this person could EVER accept removal. You can pretend that your views are not liberal, but they are certainly extreme...however one labels them.

[Rocketman]

D.........

I did a little checking and found out some particularly disturbing news concerning "convicted felons" and individuals charged with high crimes and misdemeanors.....

2 years ago a basketball player from Dayton Dunbar was allowed to play a tournament game after being charged with a rather heinous crime....
also found an instance of a football player that was allowed to play for Thurgood Marshall after an accusation of rape......

and then over near Cleveland a few years back we have someone from John Hay who had like 3 drug convictions along with a slight B&E.......
I'm sure I could find many more incidents such as these if I had more time and energy...........so

so we probably should cut some slack here............hopefully he has learned a valuable lesson and will become a valued member of society........RM

[slice slice baby]

wasn't there also an incident at O-G a couple years back where a player was permitted play wearing an ankle bracelet?

[4sportstruthonly]

Well then other convicts in other sports, in "other" private Christian schools shouldn't be either, that's with jail time also. And yet, he played, and played, and played, as other athletes have this year at the same school. Public schools have rules with attorneys, etc. Private schools make their own rules, and change them according to what works for that student, no two rules are the same. That goes in sports, education, etc. It depends on who you are, or what status financially you have to offer, then rules don't apply.

[slice slice baby]

Dman, on 06 March 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

RonnyD:

On Feb 29th I was not aware (was anybody?) that the kid was put in jail.

******************

Rocketman, on 29 February 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

and 4 pages, working on 10 if what I'm hearing is true..........RM

Colt45, on 29 February 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

He is most likely not play. Few players hinting,it.

slice slice baby, on 29 February 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

yep

Rocketman, on 01 March 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

my "inbox" is blowing up ...........we are hearing some rumblings that he won't be in a Elida uni tomorrow night...
I am trying to get confirmation from the superintendent, but lately he hasn't been returning my "calls"........

slice slice baby, on 01 March 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

"bye bye birdie"

slice slice baby, on 01 March 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

per that post of mine:
you'll hear soon.

sometimes you have to read between the lines when ppl are trying to be discreet~~or send out a PM for clarification.

[Rocketman]

slice slice baby, on 06 March 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

wasn't there also an incident at O-G a couple years back where a player was permitted play wearing an ankle bracelet?

you are correct ...........probably 10+ years ago I think

[RealitySpeaks]

Rocketman, on 06 March 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

D.........

I did a little checking and found out some particularly disturbing news concerning "convicted felons" and individuals charged with high crimes and misdemeanors.....

2 years ago a basketball player from Dayton Dunbar was allowed to play a tournament game after being charged with a rather heinous crime....
also found an instance of a football player that was allowed to play for Thurgood Marshall after an accusation of rape......

and then over near Cleveland a few years back we have someone from John Hay who had like 3 drug convictions along with a slight B&E.......
I'm sure I could find many more incidents such as these if I had more time and energy...........so

so we probably should cut some slack here............hopefully he has learned a valuable lesson and will become a valued member of society........RM

Hmmm... there seems to be some commonality here! I wonder what it is? Hmmm!

[clutch]

4sportstruthonly, on 06 March 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

First of all, LCC fans should not say a word, that would be hypocritical. The main punishment carried out to this student came before he was a student at Elida. His punishment for his crime of I believe cheating, is the crime being punished. I believe there is a player on LCC's B-team that has quite a horrific criminal record, kicked out of a couple schools, and LCC still took him. He continued his bad behavior and with little consequences. So morally, Elida has done punishment according to their stated rules. LCC morals, questionable.

You have an awkward obsession with LCC. Don't need to be making false accusations either....

[Dman]

Quote

Dman,
I think you better get ready....... my sources admit that the rumor is true..... if they make it he will play......... he made an apology to the team
And they did accept it Knowing well that he will increase their chances of advancing..... so I guess it's not just the parents and teachers who cherrish winning more..

Once wind of this gets out...minds will change. There is simply NO way that EVERY adult with the authority in the Elida District will stand by and allow their institution and mission to be made a laughing stock.

I ask this again...in good faith...as I don't really know... Is there ONE situation at ANY level of sports (kids, amateurs, pros, etc) where a participant got out of jail and was representing his/her team in active competition in less than a week's time?

At this time...Elida and their administration, parents, fans, etc are rightfully pumped up about an awesome basketball season. Through this emotion, calmer minds have not thought this situation through. Once they realize the long term implications of allowing a convict to suit up for the team, they will have NO choice but to sit this kid out. You allow this kid to play a game...and you have set precedence that all future convicts are allowed to play at Elida. Reputation damage aside... Think about what this does operationally? What kid could ever look at the school principal, the coach, the teacher, etc and have any respect for their authority?

Part of the travesty of this story, which should be a teaching moment for everybody...is that one's individual actions affect a lot more than just the individual. He has robbed his teammates and the community of the respect they deserved. No matter what Elida does, they are screwed. Allow the kid to play, and the school earns a reputation as facilitators of the most egregious example of prep school athletic exuberance...possibly in the history of NW Ohio basketball? Boot the kid for the team, and the rest of the team, administration, fans, teachers, etc lose the golden opportunity to go to Columbus.

Personally, I think they should boot him and make a run on their own. Taking that risk and failing is much more admirable than hitching a ride with a convict. Even if the convict wins them a few more games, or a championship, he will end up embarrassing the school, teammates, community, etc exponentially more than the glory of victory can overcome. One need only look to Harvest Prep's and Africentric's of the world to see how this story ends. They are champions...in their own minds. Society will NEVER respect them for their accomplishments. How you accomplish greatness is every bit as important as the accomplishment itself.

Fair or not...this moment will define how Elida's coaches and administration will be remembered. They will either be thought of as men/women who stood for decency, or as people who shirked responsibility and allowed a bunch of kids to camouflage their weaknesses as human beings. You don't expect and allow kids to vote on a convicted peer's participation in extracurricular activities. The seriousness of the moment is the reason adults are put in charge.

I fully suspect that one or more of these adults will come to their senses and do the right thing before irreparable damage is done to Elida's institutional integrity.

[Dman]

...and what is Dayton Dunbar's reputation RM? I doubt that Elida wants to be thought of in the same breath as Dayton Dunbar. How you achieve excellence is as important as achieving it. Tim Tebow may be no better than Ryan Leaf as a quarterback. But millions are proud of Tim Tebow because of HOW he achieves success.

[4sportstruthonly]

So true Rocketman, we hope it will be a final lesson.

[DC/MS]

had to leave St. Rose, strike one, had to leave Shawnee, strike two, suspended for ...............at Elida, strike three, cheating at Elida, strike four, JDC, strike five...........................hmmm............................

[Dman]

Quote

2 years ago a basketball player from Dayton Dunbar was allowed to play a tournament game after being charged with a rather heinous crime....

On February 13th of this year he was booked for theft.

Do we still cut Dayton Dunbar slack for letting him play? Or are we allowed to call it what it is? Or are we supposed to believe THIS TIME he learned a lesson?

...Elida does not want to be Dayton Dunbar!