80 replies to this topic

[waterloowonder]

roadtoC-town, on 18 March 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

taking nothing away from Granger but i would take Pardon over him. just opinion not a fact before people go crazy

I agree. Brandon Pardon is in my top 5 players to ever play in NW Ohio small schools. Without him there would no State Championship banner hanging in Lincolnview.

Edited by waterloowonder, 19 March 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[dw629]

waterloowonder, on 19 March 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

I agree. Brandon Pardon is in my top 5 players to ever play in NW Ohio small schools. Without him there would no State Championship banner hanging in Lincolnview.

If no BP it may have went to Leipsic

[flounder]

dw629, on 19 March 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

If no BP it may have went to Leipsic

I believe DSJ came the closest to beating L'view that season.........sooooooooooooooooooo, if no BP, it could have been the Jays!!!!!

[flounder]

roadtoC-town, on 18 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

I wont argue with his success. But there is a reason he has coached at 3 different schools and it's not a good reason.

C-town.....

If my memory serves me right, Hegemeier left Spencerville, Ft. Loramie, and New Knoxville on his own terms!!!!

[roadtoC-town]

flounder, on 19 March 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

C-town.....

If my memory serves me right, Hegemeier left Spencerville, Ft. Loramie, and New Knoxville on his own terms!!!!

I didn't say he was forced out. I was talking about reasons none of these school fought to keep him and would really think hard about taking him back.

[roadtoC-town]

Dman, on 19 March 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

I've got no qualms with your list C-town. But there are many great coaches who will never sniff Columbus. Unless you have the Jimmy and Joe's...there is nothing a coach can do. I don't judge coaches by state title's, or even victories. I judge coach's on what they do with the talent they have. I judge them on how their teams improve as a season progresses. There are so many factors that go into it. Call it what you want...but by my measuring stick Kevin was a damn fine basketball coach.

If state title's are the measuring stick. I surmise that whoever the coaches at Dunbar, LCC, Ottawa, etc are 10 years from now...are already great! Or ANY coach willing to collect transfers/convicts/etc are great (Dunbar fits both lists)! There is just too much that goes into state titles to use that as a measuring stick, in my opinion.

I'll use Sensabaugh (sp?) or Best. Both are great coaches that get the most out of the talent they have. I'll even throw Rob Welch into the mix. Lincolnview's talent has not been anywhere near conference championship level...let alone Columbus. But his teams are always prepared. They play a lot of close games. Ada learned that the hard way. This guy has a losing record as a coach. But that does not mean he is not a great coach...in my book!

I'm not saying these guys deserve to make a top ten list. I'm just saying that a top ten list takes into account a lot of factors that are outside of variables a coach can control.

Great points DMan. You can find quotes from me saying if you can't win at OG and LCC you can't coach. I could go there and win 60% of their games. Now tourney is another story--its 1 game, you need luck and a pretty good coach.

Some schools are harder to coach because of talent. DNA usually doesn't change when pass down. Again agree that alot of things go into being a great coach and the one thing that a coach can't change/control/fix is DNA.

I think he had the Jimmy and Joe's to win it at MC.

I would take J. Best over the 2 you talked about.

Edited by roadtoC-town, 19 March 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[redskin rowdy]

Not sure if this has been said, but Matt Bradley at Wapak. This is his first varsity gig

[dw629]

flounder, on 19 March 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

I believe DSJ came the closest to beating L'view that season.........sooooooooooooooooooo, if no BP, it could have been the Jays!!!!!

It doesn't matter he played and neither won it. I just remember Leipsic leading most of the game and then losing like 67-62 in front of like 8 or so thousand at savage hall for a trip to go to state #1 and #2 ranked team in the state. What sucks is Leipsic is not a basketball school at all and the year they were good they went 23-2 and the two loses came to the D3 (PH) and D4 (L-view) state champions.

[bleacherman]

OK, since this thread is about coaching, I have a question about coaching.
Is there some kind of unwritten rule that prohibits coaches that have not been very successful from getting coaching advice or stratigies from coaches who have been and are successful?? I mean if I am consistently struggling with something, and I find someone who has been consistently successful at the same thing, I am gonna ask that person, what is their secret. Why can't coaches do that????? Just curious.

[dropNdimes]

bleacherman, on 22 March 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

OK, since this thread is about coaching, I have a question about coaching.
Is there some kind of unwritten rule that prohibits coaches that have not been very successful from getting coaching advice or stratigies from coaches who have been and are successful?? I mean if I am consistently struggling with something, and I find someone who has been consistently successful at the same thing, I am gonna ask that person, what is their secret. Why can't coaches do that????? Just curious.

redskin rowdy, on 19 March 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Not sure if this has been said, but Matt Bradley at Wapak. This is his first varsity gig

This is a good question but if I had to take a stab at it I would say that coaches have egos and their ego won't allow them to ask for help. Maybe they'd feel embarrassed a little bit by the fact to ask another coach for help. I would think that the coach that needs help could watch films of the successful coaches and get the answer they're looking for. Also, coaches will tell everyone that whatever they're doing works, kids just have to execute better or make shots when whatever style they have might not be best suited for his players. (kind of like rich rod running the spread at michigan- didn't work out too well)


i like Matt Bradley and think that he is a decent coach but from what I understand is that the seat is getting hot. I hope he has some success soon because he is a really nice guy and I think he does a pretty good job.

Edited by dropNdimes, 22 March 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[milt73]

Duration is a big part of coaching to hit the 300+ mark. 20 wins a season (honestly who averages that? no one) it will take you 15 years to do it. Coaching tenures are getting shorter and shorter. Most Coaches just don't do it that long anymore to get into a high value number of wins.

[roadtoC-town]

bleacherman, on 22 March 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

OK, since this thread is about coaching, I have a question about coaching.
Is there some kind of unwritten rule that prohibits coaches that have not been very successful from getting coaching advice or stratigies from coaches who have been and are successful?? I mean if I am consistently struggling with something, and I find someone who has been consistently successful at the same thing, I am gonna ask that person, what is their secret. Why can't coaches do that????? Just curious.

It happens alot. Alot of coaches help each other. Alot of retired coaches come in to practices for a day or two and show kids something different then the program usually runs. Coaches in the same division or conference don't communicate much but alot of coaches help each other. One of the best ever-Bob Arnzen--helped out alot of coaches as they came up the rank. Ray Etzler, Bob Segerson and Al Welch help out alot of schools besides LCC, WT and Crestview. .

[milt73]

bleacherman, on 22 March 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

OK, since this thread is about coaching, I have a question about coaching.
Is there some kind of unwritten rule that prohibits coaches that have not been very successful from getting coaching advice or stratigies from coaches who have been and are successful?? I mean if I am consistently struggling with something, and I find someone who has been consistently successful at the same thing, I am gonna ask that person, what is their secret. Why can't coaches do that????? Just curious.

roadtoC-town, on 24 March 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

It happens alot. Alot of coaches help each other. Alot of retired coaches come in to practices for a day or two and show kids something different then the program usually runs. Coaches in the same division or conference don't communicate much but alot of coaches help each other. One of the best ever-Bob Arnzen--helped out alot of coaches as they came up the rank. Ray Etzler, Bob Segerson and Al Welch help out alot of schools besides LCC, WT and Crestview. .

Coaches often go to clinics to enhance their knowledge of the game also. Many coaches seek out successful coaches for advice or console and most of that has nothing to do with the game itself, but how to run a good program. I think a lot of coaches do this without announcing it to the public. I would actually be surprised and concerned if a coach said, 'I talked to Seg and Etzler. Next year we are going to do this, this and this because they did it like that....' And I will bet any amount of money that Seggerson, Etzler, Arnzen and other great coaches don't want you to do it their way just because they were succesful. They want you to do it in a way that you personally believe in, first and foremost.

Edited by milt73, 26 March 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[roadtoC-town]

milt73, on 26 March 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Coaches often go to clinics to enhance their knowledge of the game also. Many coaches seek out successful coaches for advice or console and most of that has nothing to do with the game itself, but how to run a good program. I think a lot of coaches do this without announcing it to the public. I would actually be surprised and concerned if a coach said, 'I talked to Seg and Etzler. Next year we are going to do this, this and this because they did it like that....' And I will bet any amount of money that Seggerson, Etzler, Arnzen and other great coaches don't want you to do it their way just because they were succesful. They want you to do it in a way that you personally believe in, first and foremost.

Very true. It is different for every coach. Some might want an older coach to come in and do a shooting clinic for a day. Just to see if they see something different on a kids form or a different approach to improve their form. Some want to change their offense or defense a little because the kids coming up don't fit what they have been running. So they will install what they want to change and find an older coach who ran this alot and have them come look after they have been running it a couple weeks.

[milt73]

roadtoC-town, on 26 March 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Very true. It is different for every coach. Some might want an older coach to come in and do a shooting clinic for a day. Just to see if they see something different on a kids form or a different approach to improve their form. Some want to change their offense or defense a little because the kids coming up don't fit what they have been running. So they will install what they want to change and find an older coach who ran this alot and have them come look after they have been running it a couple weeks.

I agree with you 100%, I was just providing a different viewpoint. I agree with you about changing the offense and defense a little bit to fit the personal on the team. You can't push a fast paced, up and down game if you don't have fast/athletic kids to do it. Likewise, if your kids are fast but lack half-court skills, you might want to push it a little more because it fits your team. Those are just two basic things for the sake of conversation. Either way, it doesn't change the basic skills needed to be a successful basketball team.

[flounder]

Bob Arnzen did things pretty much the same way year in and year out......if you would have noticed his offensive sets, they did not vary much.......Arn's logic was that if we run them to perfection, they will work......also, one thing I especially liked about this man.....well, I liked alot of things, but he never used the word 'I' or 'my'.....it was always we, our, or a word that mentined them as a team......he was a team man, and not one who did it for personal or selfish goals!!!!!

Bob Arnzen could have had 800 plus victories to his credit, but he never scheduled soft!!!!!!

[Coach]

There is so much to being a great coach that no one really knows for sure what makes a coach great! A coach can be at one school and struggle and go to another school and win almost every game. If we had an answer to this question everyone would be a great coach.

I will use this example because this doesn't hurt any coach. Ashland University Women's program has a solid program for years. This year she had the Div.III player of the year (2009) that attended Dayton and transferred in and the all-state player who played for Berlin Hiland transfer in from Kent Sate. Well, they went 33-2 and lost in the finals of the NCAA Div. II Championship game this past Saturday.

Talent sure seems to make one a better coach or was she that good of a coach to begin with and we didn't realize it?
I really believe there are some very good coaches out there but have mediocre talent and probably will never be heard of.

[bleacherman]

OK, Coach,
Obviously I am not a coach, but in my ignorant thinkin, I would assume that a good (great) coach would find out what his players strengths and weaknesses are and design an offense and defense around those strengths and weaknesses and not force the team to run an offense and defense that doesn't fit their style. There are some coaches out there that have had many many years of winning teams and have not had great talent all those years.

[Common Sense]

bleacherman, on 22 March 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

OK, since this thread is about coaching, I have a question about coaching.
Is there some kind of unwritten rule that prohibits coaches that have not been very successful from getting coaching advice or stratigies from coaches who have been and are successful?? I mean if I am consistently struggling with something, and I find someone who has been consistently successful at the same thing, I am gonna ask that person, what is their secret. Why can't coaches do that????? Just curious.

One thing that you'll always find in successful programs is a good youth program. Weather is a couple of guys who run the youth basketball program, or just dedicated Dads that understand the big picture, talent starts at the 4th and 5th grade levels. You're 7th and 8th grade coaches can't spend 75% of practice time working on fundamentals. No high school coach is successful with poor talent.

[bleacherman]

What about a solid summer program. What happens if the players want to play in some summer tournaments that won't interfere with the coaches summer plans and the coach won't let them. I'm just tryin to get some of the aspects that make programs successful. There are some programs that have several years of successful basketball and some programs that hardly ever have successful seasons. There's got to be something consistent in successful basketball. Like I said in a previous post, some of those successful programs have had success with less than overly talented players. A programs is not going to have tons of talent for 20 to 30 years in a row. But the program has been successful all those years.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to beat a dead horse. It's just frustrating to see talented players wasted. The talent is there, but the wins aren't.