144 replies to this topic

[Common Sense]

This is an outsiders perspective. Small schools have a really difficult offering anything more than football, cross country and golf. CC and golf typically don't "take" football players away from the program. My suggestion, if your kid likes soccer, move to a bigger school. Athletic programs cost money, period. I know many of you don't like money entering the conversation. But fact, people support football. People go to football games on Friday nights, they just do, win or lose. Few people go to soccer games outside of the kids parents. Don't know your schedule this year, but I'm sure each year, of your 5 home games, you get a good gate from either Leipsic, McComb, LB, Arlington and (used to be) Hardin Northern. THIS is what supports your athletic programs. Are there any D6 football schools who have successful football and soccer programs??? Nope, not really.

[OSH]

You might get good gate from some of these games...but you are also spending a pretty penny to operate football.

To refurbish a helmet, it's at least $125. That has to be done EVERY year. If you buy them new, then it's closer to $250-300. That's not including all the pads. The new jerseys that happen EVERY year. Then you have all the coaches on staff. That adds up really quickly. None of this even includes the travel and paying 5-6 man referee systems.

Soccer can operate on <$5,000. I've seen it done. That includes the coach's pay (notice that is singular), travel, and referee costs. That is total operating costs. That's peanuts compared to a football budget. I could care less about the "good gate." Basketball and football MAY be classified as "revenue" sports, but there isn't ALWAYS good revenue from them. Soccer could be there, if the boosters cared enough to do it like they do for football.

All it takes is some investment...Akron would never have gotten good if they didn't have anyone invest in the university's soccer program. No athletic team would've gotten good if they hadn't had investors -- coaches, administration, boosters, fans, players, and donors.

[Common Sense]

OSH, on 21 November 2011 - 01:25 AM, said:

You might get good gate from some of these games...but you are also spending a pretty penny to operate football.

To refurbish a helmet, it's at least $125. That has to be done EVERY year. If you buy them new, then it's closer to $250-300. That's not including all the pads. The new jerseys that happen EVERY year. Then you have all the coaches on staff. That adds up really quickly. None of this even includes the travel and paying 5-6 man referee systems.

Soccer can operate on <$5,000. I've seen it done. That includes the coach's pay (notice that is singular), travel, and referee costs. That is total operating costs. That's peanuts compared to a football budget. I could care less about the "good gate." Basketball and football MAY be classified as "revenue" sports, but there isn't ALWAYS good revenue from them. Soccer could be there, if the boosters cared enough to do it like they do for football.

All it takes is some investment...Akron would never have gotten good if they didn't have anyone invest in the university's soccer program. No athletic team would've gotten good if they hadn't had investors -- coaches, administration, boosters, fans, players, and donors.

I certainly hope you don't equate a D1 college to small high school. Apples and oranges. Notice I didn't say anything about Bluffton, LCC or other biggers school. They have many more student athletes and can support two competitive programs.
There is no doubt that football has much more expense than soccer. But again, when you look at what communities support, and when I look at Pandora, they'll support a high school football program a heck of a lot more than a soccer program.

[OSH]

Common Sense, on 21 November 2011 - 03:06 PM, said:

I certainly hope you don't equate a D1 college to small high school. Apples and oranges. Notice I didn't say anything about Bluffton, LCC or other biggers school. They have many more student athletes and can support two competitive programs.
There is no doubt that football has much more expense than soccer. But again, when you look at what communities support, and when I look at Pandora, they'll support a high school football program a heck of a lot more than a soccer program.

Where did I try to "equate" DI college/university athletics with small high schools? I just basically said that an investment (like Akron had with soccer) works. It takes the same at high school. It may take more time, but it is the same. Heck, it takes MORE to do it at the college/university level than it could at smaller schools. You ever try to get someone at a college/university to "buy-into" what you want at that institution...sheesh, that's tough! Getting student-athletes at the high school and middle school level to "buy-into" can be a lot easier.

Where have you seen a high school (or even a university) athletic program succeed without someone (or somebodies) investing in the program? Football programs aren't just "good" because they are...it takes investment into the program to be good. A soccer team, like Pandora, can do it...with time and investment. It takes people to buy-into (invest) in the program. It appears that there's a coach for the soccer program that is investing into it. I have also heard there are future players trying to invest into the program -- maybe getting a petition signed or helping with fundraising.

It works. But it may take time.

Edited by OSH, 21 November 2011 - 08:49 PM.

[Common Sense]

OSH, on 21 November 2011 - 08:48 PM, said:

Where did I try to "equate" DI college/university athletics with small high schools? I just basically said that an investment (like Akron had with soccer) works. It takes the same at high school. It may take more time, but it is the same. Heck, it takes MORE to do it at the college/university level than it could at smaller schools. You ever try to get someone at a college/university to "buy-into" what you want at that institution...sheesh, that's tough! Getting student-athletes at the high school and middle school level to "buy-into" can be a lot easier.

Where have you seen a high school (or even a university) athletic program succeed without someone (or somebodies) investing in the program? Football programs aren't just "good" because they are...it takes investment into the program to be good. A soccer team, like Pandora, can do it...with time and investment. It takes people to buy-into (invest) in the program. It appears that there's a coach for the soccer program that is investing into it. I have also heard there are future players trying to invest into the program -- maybe getting a petition signed or helping with fundraising.

It works. But it may take time.

Bingo, you said it takes people to buy-into (invest) in the program. Unless there is something strange going on over there, it's a football community. Akron is a D1 college program with thousands of students on campus. Much, much easier to start a soccer team, rowing, fencing, anything you want. Pandora has what...70-80 boys in the grades 9-12?

[OSH]

Common Sense, on 21 November 2011 - 11:30 PM, said:

Bingo, you said it takes people to buy-into (invest) in the program. Unless there is something strange going on over there, it's a football community. Akron is a D1 college program with thousands of students on campus. Much, much easier to start a soccer team, rowing, fencing, anything you want. Pandora has what...70-80 boys in the grades 9-12?

I also stated earlier that they have a coach who is investing in the program. And, they also have some future players investing in the program. It has to start somewhere...and apparently there is some movements in trying to get P-G soccer going.

And, no, it is not easier to start things at the university level. With "thousands" of students...you also have "thousands" of hoops to jump through. It's not THAT easy to start any program at the university level. There are soooooo many people you have to get approval from and deal with. You are then dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollar budgets. That's not easy to get cleared. Much easier to get things going at the lower levels -- and it's not even that easy.

[OSH]

While there were some movements in trying to get P-G soccer going...it will end.

It was decided last night that the P-G soccer program will be no more.

[NW Ohio Guy]

Unfortunately thats true as of now... The B.O.E. has pulled a pretty scandalous plan I heard... They had had put the topic of soccer program on the last few BOE meetings, and nothing was said. Then the board didn't have meetings for a couple months and suddenly another meeting appeared. But there was something different about the members of the board. There was a new member on the board. When I heard that I thought nothing of it, but then I heard who the BOE was. So WHY DID PANDORA-GILBOA's B.O.E. WAIT TO HAVE THE MEETING? THE ANSWER: TO REPLACE A SOCCER SUPPORTER WITH A "FOOTBALL" DAD. hmmmm coinsidence... it was at pandora, there's no way that would happen Then I heard THE HEAD VARSITY FOOTBALL COACH/ former 20% Athletic Director happened to know about the meeting and was just tearing up the soccer team making sure the program was over so his "LENGENDARY 2-8 TEAM" (but those 2 wins were against Vanlue and HN, so any morally right person wouldn't count them, especially if you play dirty and 'destroy' them...poor guys ) can last and continue their "TRADITION OF EXCELLENCE", you know that p-g football tradition of excellence , having a winning rate of about 30% (like restated it was against schools like Vanlue ,Arcadia,and HN . Well this was just another event, or achievement i guess in the BOE's point of view, that the BOE has wrongly and sneakingly got away with... Now if you dont know of another one ha ha you must have been under a rock- Firing the successful coach JB, who in the last few years averaged 17-18 wins, and back 2 back Putnam County League titles, the only PCL titles Varsity BasketBall has earned as a consolidated school of Pandora and Gilboa


The "Board of Education" or thats atleast what PG calls it, should have fired that coach, i heard from a primary source nobody liked him and wasnt a good coach- the record shows :/

I wonder whats coming next... Are they going to blow the new school up because the board of education's room was the wrong shade of tan?

[whodey]

Whats next for the kids who played..? Gotta be frustrated

[dkusma96]

whodey, on 12 January 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

Whats next for the kids who played..? Gotta be frustrated

Open enroll at OG or another school that fields a team.

[NW Ohio Guy]

The following text is from the Superintendents Forum in The PG Linka paper sent to residents of the district informing them about the crap the BOE passed in order to benefit their kids, and not the rest of the district- anonymous

"At the January Board meeting, the School Board approved my recommendation to terminate the Soccer program at Pandora-Gilboa." ... "However, my final decision was based on the fact that we do not have an enrollment large enough to field the program anymore. Not only has our enrollment declined since soccer was started, but I also believe students priorities have changed over the years. Participation in extracurricular activities has also declined as students have other interests..."

Points to remember from unspoken opinions of the district:
Well actually, according to the Putnam County Sentinel, In Putnam County, ALL school's enrollment has decreased (compared to 2000),except Columbus Grove LSD and Ottawa-Glandorf LSD, in 2010-2011.

The reason why kids arent participating in sports: the school is making kids pay for things like half of uniforms and equipment that other schools dont have to. Another is thatthe school is getting rid of all the oldersuccessful, and not clueless, coaches and replacing them with young coaches that kids do not want to play for, and the school can get away with paying squat to.So saving a little bit of money decreases everything about the extra Circ. activities, and having successfulsports and other activities makes the difference between one school's enrollment to another. What about the PG High school band? I have nothing against them but, more than half of it is (or was) middle school kids. &amp;amp;nbsp;They dont even have enough kids in the high school band to have a high school band. The band director has to play, her husband has to play, and so do Alumni EVERY GAME!!!!!! &amp;amp;nbsp;I think the PG should do what I hear that Fort Jennings and Arcadia do, require kids to be in a fall sport or band. Thats a great idea, it keeps kids busy, physically fit, and off the streets and out of trouble.

Pandora Gilboa I believe has the most sports available in the area of its size, which helped the school get the little bit of students they have. The superintendent is a people pleaser orat least an important people pleaser.I think the school needs to completely change the BOE, or at least give the opportunity to, make everyone's contract expire and have everyone run for re-election.
and actually the soccer team roster for next year was sitting at 16 students. Im pretty sure that is more than plenty to "field the program". I personally believe that he wants the school to save more money so he can get a bigger pay check!

Not even the great and very experience Mr. Dale Lewellen, former PG superintendent and new Bath Superintendent,agreed with the superintendent's idea to end the program. He even came to PG the day after the well-hidden meeting occured to state his opinion to keep the program. The District misses you Superintendent L!

and im no english buff but there's a capitalization error in the first line that i posted from the PG LINK.


-sorry if this post doesn't make sense, when i posted this random words and logos appeared-any symbols i typed were replaced with random letters.

Edited by NW Ohio Guy, 14 January 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[OSH]

NW Ohio Guy, on 14 January 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

The reason why kids arent participating in sports: the school is making kids pay for things like half of uniforms and equipment that other schools dont have to.

I will comment later on this...it's gotten rather late and I need some sleep.

I simply do not agree with the quoted statement. There is absolutely no proof that this is a reason kids don't participate. That is a cop-out and go-to excuse. There are many reasons why kids aren't participating and I would be surprised if "participation fees" are even in the top ten reasons.

Participation fees NEED to happen. It only makes sense. But that can be saved for another time. Like I said, I'll touch on your comments after I get some sleep.

Edited by OSH, 15 January 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[TheFalcon]

P-G lost to Ada this year. I think that anyone who lost to Ada last year (with the exception of Riverdale) should cut the program. I mean seriously! If you suck so bad as to lose to Ada...

[Mysterio]

TheFalcon, on 01 February 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

P-G lost to Ada this year. I think that anyone who lost to Ada last year (with the exception of Riverdale) should cut the program. I mean seriously! If you suck so bad as to lose to Ada...

Why the exception of Riverdale? You just said anyone who lost to Ada last year should cut the program? You're not making a good argument for this if your reason for cutting a program is because they lost to Ada. If you feel thats why P-G should end its program, then why not Riverdale. They lost to Ada as well on a neutral field even. Sorry but I don't decide whether a school should end a program based on who they got beat by. Thats just not the way it is.

[Mysterio]

It's just tough for a school like P-G to have football and soccer. Which are two of the main sports in the fall season. I'm not exactly sure what other sports P-G has during the fall, but to have both football and soccer is tough to do. I wouldn't end a program because they lose year in and year out. Nobody ever does that. Some smaller schools are just having a hard time to fill the numbers for both sports. You can basically relate this to Crestview. Had a soccer team which had a few decent years like P-G but just had hard times competing and getting the numbers due to the simple fact of competing with football and being a smaller town.

[NW Ohio Guy]

I knew when the last coach resigned the program would just be driven down to the ground until it was cancelled.
-Last year's record was 6-10-1 and a roster of 23/24. This years record was like 0-(all the games) with 13/14 on the roster! HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN! <clearly it was a problem with the COACHING STAFF) I thought the new coach who coached college would have done something better, but now that i look at it, While he was coaching @ Bluffton U he didnt have enough girls to sub and had a horrible record.

and Pandora-Gilboa "ended the soccer program to preserve the football program"

Since Pandora is quote the ALL MIGHTY/ LEGENDARY Coach Arthur "We are the 3rd smallest school in ohio to have football" Why keep the program when you only beat the two schools that are smaller!!?? and one of those schools Vanlue, is going to be closed unless consolidation. After that Pandora will be the 2nd smallest. But wait.... Hardin Northern may be getting rid of their football program so wait... that means Pandora might become the smallest school in ohio with football. NOW WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BEAT!? hmmm... ...

[TheFalcon]

Mysterio, on 01 February 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Why the exception of Riverdale? You just said anyone who lost to Ada last year should cut the program? You're not making a good argument for this if your reason for cutting a program is because they lost to Ada. If you feel thats why P-G should end its program, then why not Riverdale. They lost to Ada as well on a neutral field even. Sorry but I don't decide whether a school should end a program based on who they got beat by. Thats just not the way it is.

I only exclude Riverdale because out of the wins Ada had this year, they were the only team relevant. But it did take Ada a goal with 90 sec left by a one-on-one goal by Crabtree to top Riverdale. It easily could've been worse in favor of Riverdale, they just had too many missed opportunities.

[JimBucks]

They can't field a boys soccer team with boys and chose to end the program. How many years ago was it that grove had to do the same with girls basketball? Jennings hasn't had volleyball in how many years? When was the last season Miller City had girls track? Kids will determine a lot by their participation numbers, sure sounds like more are choosing football over soccer in Pandora.

[NW Ohio Guy]

yeah that was overlooked. like i said, they have to do this so football is saved for a few years. you don't have to call Ripley for this one but Believe it or not, the first or second year coach hovest became coach, she had 25 (16/17 or so guys) on the roster while football had about 32/33 kids. hmmm numbers started to get close and are being taken away from football hmm let's get rid of a program that is beginning to become something. Well of course by the time it was becoming something coach hovest had to retire because of (a) job promotion(s). Then the new coach came and was going to "turn the program around" and that's exactly what he did... right into the ground.

[Mysterio]

TheFalcon, on 01 February 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

I only exclude Riverdale because out of the wins Ada had this year, they were the only team relevant. But it did take Ada a goal with 90 sec left by a one-on-one goal by Crabtree to top Riverdale. It easily could've been worse in favor of Riverdale, they just had too many missed opportunities.

You sure Riverdale is a relevant team to Ada? Because I was aware that anyone who loses to Ada just basically sucks according to what you said. So wouldn't you think Riverdale does then?

It doesn't matter how Ada scored their goal and I don't care if Riverdale had 3 penalty kicks and missed them all. A loss is a loss no matter how many opportunities you had. That doesn't change anything. It's so easy to say that a game could easily have been worse in ones favor. I don't listen to the talking before or after the game, it's what you do on the field that defies you. If you don't get the job done on the field, you won't get it done off the field. Just saying you calling out P-G on that and I'll say Riverdale deserves to be in that conversation then since they lost to Ada too just based on your point. I'm not saying Riverdale should cut their program, but if we are going accordance to your point then why not.

I'm just going to say it again, there is no need to cut a program because of a certain loss to another team. Thats all there needs to be said about this anymore.

Edited by Mysterio, 02 February 2012 - 08:41 AM.