144 replies to this topic

[Common Sense]

Mysterio, on 14 February 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Well thats a good point. And I believe gate receipts are very important because its definitely how most sports make their money. But what about baseball? Do they even make any money? Do they even charge admission to the games? I'm not real sure thats why I'm asking. I never said anything about people not looking football or people liking soccer more. I know football is a popular sport but soccer is growing, slowly. Equipment and soccer balls are something you dont have to pay for every year. Some schools that equipment can last a long time and the soccer balls maybe every 3 years. Some schools get a big enough crowd to cover the expenses while very few may not.

But lets think about this for a minute. Football games are more conveniant for most people to go to why? Because they only play on friday nights (sometimes saturdays). So therefore people that work late will be able to go. Soccer games fall mostly on weekdays sometimes starting at 5 or 7. And some cant go because of work. But I also think some people just don't like watching soccer because they were raised as a football fan and soccer has not been around in the states for very long. Some on the other hand have drawn accustomed to it.

This is the same excuse many conferences used when they switched to allow the girls programs to share basketball on Friday night's with the guys. Results??? Have not seen any statistics (wonder why?) but I'd surmise that girls Friday night games are not attended as well as guys. And yes, there are a few elite programs who may draw as well as the guys, but overall, it hurts athletic departments. And some of you say athletic departments are a small part of the overall budget. Ok, I can't prove or disprove that, but is that a reason to just have sports that lose money just because???? Look, I'm in my 40's soccer was around in the 70's, it's been rammed down our throats, people in general just don't go attend soccer games, period. It's the parents of the players and that's about it. And some of them don't even go.

[Mysterio]

Common Sense, on 15 February 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

This is the same excuse many conferences used when they switched to allow the girls programs to share basketball on Friday night's with the guys.

Hey not every sport out there loses money. Soccer programs do make money, I do know that. Maybe not as much as basketball or football but they do. Look soccer doesn't require as much equipment as you think. And soccer was not that popular back in the 70s. Sorry but it was not. Some high schools just started their programs in the 90s, early 2000s.

Look I'm making no excuses here. I think that is one of the reasons why. Work schedules are a conflict with some sports. Look in all honesty, you're not going to have the same attendance for a girls game as you would a boys game. I think in most cases thats a proven fact. So switching them over to fridays with the boys will not matter too much. Is soccer as popular as football? Of course not. How about basketball? Nope. It may never be more popular but there are people that do like the sport.

[OSH]

The reason girls basketball was switched to Friday nights was more of a Title IX reason than anything else. It wasn't always "fair" to give the boys the "primetime" spotlight on Friday nights. It wasn't necessarily because they wanted to increase attendance -- although that could be part of the "primetime" spotlight -- it was so that there was less competition for girls games on Fridays instead of ALWAYS being on Saturday and having wrestling or other events occurring at the same time.

I am not in my 40s, but if soccer has been "rammed down your throat" since the 70s, you are in the minority. I had no idea about soccer until 1992ish. My community is still very small and VERY underdeveloped with the game. That's the reason why attendance is down. It's still a growing game...especially in rural Ohio where football and basketball have been long-time staples in community support.

I don't know why everyone keeps bringing up the argument about "competing" with basketball and football. It won't happen at the high school level. It just won't. I would venture to say that most high school coaches and players DON'T CARE about that either. They just want the opportunity to play. Would they like better support? Absolutely, but who wouldn't? Even if your team is undefeated, there are still ways the support could be better.

No one is saying that soccer should be MORE popular than football or basketball. As Mysterio alluded to...people like the sport. Ohio is a very soccer-rich state. I believe in the next 5-10 years we will see soccer at a level in the US that rivals many other countries. Will it be like England? Probably not. But there will be more and more supporters for soccer in that time-span. The generations that grew up playing soccer are now having kids and being in "power positions." This will only promote the "beautiful game" even more.

[Mysterio]

I couldn't agree with you more OSH. I wasn't around in the 70s but I do know when I started playing the game, it wasn't that popular in the states and it still is not. I love the sport of soccer and I do hope the popularity of the sport increases. And I think it will in time. I think people are too caught up in the scoring aspect of sports these days that when they see soccer they say well there is just not enough scoring. Which is true but to the true soccer fans, there is more to the sport than just scoring. And I think thats why you don't get the support like you do in football and basketball because people are just used to the scoring.

Edited by Mysterio, 15 February 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[caldwell]

Question Mysterio: Do you think regular season High school sports should end in a tie?

[Goin2goal]

Caldwell, I'll answer that....NO, HS sports should not end in a tie!

[Mysterio]

caldwell, on 15 February 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Question Mysterio: Do you think regular season High school sports should end in a tie?

No I don't think they should, whether its H.S., college or pros. For me, when I go to sporting events I like to see winners and losers. I enjoy the game of soccer and I understand ties are part of the game since they equal to 1 point and that 1 point can make a difference in the standings. Hockey is the same way and well the NFL every blue moon will have a tie. In competitive sports you either win or lose, ties just tell me the better team just couldn't be determined.

Edited by Mysterio, 15 February 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[OSH]

caldwell, on 15 February 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Question Mysterio: Do you think regular season High school sports should end in a tie?

Yes. There is nothing wrong with soccer ending in a "tie." It only happens in the regular season.

It just goes with the sport. As Mysterio menioned, hockey can end in ties. Football had it in their game at one time. It's happened in baseball too. In the end, the regular season DOES NOT MATTER. Everyone uses the regular season as a means of prepping for the postseason. With the structure of high school sports...the regular season is only for the postseason. There are a lot of coaches who specifically schedule for that reason: play for the postseason.

Who cares if it ends in a "tie?" What does it matter in the end? Either team can take A LOT from the result...win, lose, or draw.

[roarintiger1]

Wow! Baseball never ends in a tie unless the weather or darkness comes into play. Then usually, the game is restarted at a later time to finish it. Plus, I know of no coach that specifically plays for the post season. Majority of teams are one and done in the post season. Regular season conference titles are often Goal #1 for any high school team......... Maybe we're getting to the real core of this soccer thing. "who cares if it ends in a tie"???????? Let's let everyone play and run through a tunnel after the game so we all feel good.

[caldwell]

OSH, on 15 February 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Yes. There is nothing wrong with soccer ending in a "tie." It only happens in the regular season.

It just goes with the sport. As Mysterio menioned, hockey can end in ties. Football had it in their game at one time. It's happened in baseball too. In the end, the regular season DOES NOT MATTER. Everyone uses the regular season as a means of prepping for the postseason. With the structure of high school sports...the regular season is only for the postseason. There are a lot of coaches who specifically schedule for that reason: play for the postseason.

Who cares if it ends in a "tie?" What does it matter in the end? Either team can take A LOT from the result...win, lose, or draw.

Possibly getting rid of the ties would help attendance?
Possibly getting rid of off-sides would increase scoring?
Eliminate the slow late game substitutions that eat up the clock?
Eliminate the senseless flopping?


Follow my lead and the game wouldn't be near as boring and attendance would go up.

[dkusma96]

caldwell, on 15 February 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Possibly getting rid of the ties would help attendance?
Possibly getting rid of off-sides would increase scoring?
Eliminate the slow late game substitutions that eat up the clock?
Eliminate the senseless flopping?


Follow my lead and the game wouldn't be near as boring and attendance would go up.

No thanks.

[pclbvc11]

Word on the streets is that Pandora isnt giving up on the fight and will have a Recreational team next year, still playing were they did, wearing what they did. THe only difference is that the school won't be backing them, so no difference the school never funded their program in the first place. Glad to hear they are still fighting it!

[paynepanthers]

Change the scoring so that each goal is worth more points. The scores would look better in the paper.

Football game 21-7 similar to Soccer game 3-1

[Mysterio]

paynepanthers, on 15 February 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Change the scoring so that each goal is worth more points. The scores would look better in the paper.

Football game 21-7 similar to Soccer game 3-1

No I don't think so. The scoring is fine, the game is fine. 21-7 or 3-1 is still 3 goals to 1 goal scored. Nothing different about it. It doesn't matter what looks good in the paper. If you don't like how the game is played then don't watch it. I don't see why people don't understand that.

[paynepanthers]

Mysterio, on 15 February 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

No I don't think so. The scoring is fine, the game is fine. 21-7 or 3-1 is still 3 goals to 1 goal scored. Nothing different about it. It doesn't matter what looks good in the paper. If you don't like how the game is played then don't watch it. I don't see why people don't understand that.

My point must have been too subtle. It was directed at the folks who find Soccer boring because of the low scores. They often don't think about how inflated the scores are in American football which assigns 6 points per primary score rather than one. If soccer had a differentiated scoring system like American football the scores would be inflated and might not seem so boring to those folks. Inside the 6 (1 point), outside the 6 but inside the 18(2 points), outside the 18 (3 points). I always chuckle at those folks who knock Soccer for low scoring and then go crazy because their favorite American football team crushed the other team 21-7. I used the smiley faces to try and show humor.

Edited by paynepanthers, 15 February 2012 - 04:49 PM.

[OSH]

roarintiger1, on 15 February 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Wow! Baseball never ends in a tie unless the weather or darkness comes into play. Then usually, the game is restarted at a later time to finish it. Plus, I know of no coach that specifically plays for the post season. Majority of teams are one and done in the post season. Regular season conference titles are often Goal #1 for any high school team......... Maybe we're getting to the real core of this soccer thing. "who cares if it ends in a tie"???????? Let's let everyone play and run through a tunnel after the game so we all feel good.

I believe the MLB All-Star game ended in a tie a few years ago...how about that? It counts. They also still happen in college -- true story. The Japanese baseball league allows ties as well. So, while it may not be as prevalent in high school...ties still happen in baseball. Maybe I should bang my head against the wall?

Just because you don't know a coach who plays for the postseason doesn't mean that they aren't there. I know them, they exist. Yes, regular season conference titles are "important" to some, but if they know that it's attainable (and even for some, easy) they play for the postseason. They schedule their nonconference games to prepare them for the postseason. See how that works?

A "tie" is not that big of a deal. If it were, college football would've eliminated "ties" before 1968. It has nothing to do with making people feel good. It just doesn't have that much impact on the season as a whole -- or the postseason which is important.

caldwell, on 15 February 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Possibly getting rid of the ties would help attendance?
Possibly getting rid of off-sides would increase scoring?
Eliminate the slow late game substitutions that eat up the clock?
Eliminate the senseless flopping?


Follow my lead and the game wouldn't be near as boring and attendance would go up.

Disallowing "ties" would do nothing to "increase attendance."

Getting rid of "off-sides" would be ridiculous. If they do that in soccer, then do it in hockey, do it in American football, and do away with foul balls in baseball. It would increase scoring and make all of them more exciting!

The late game substitutions are controlled, just not in high school -- but that is a proposal. They are controlled internationally. They are controlled in college. But it's the lousy high school associations that screw things up. Don't fret, I have made my complaints to the necessary parties to change this one.

The flopping issue doesn't even need to be addressed. It happens in every sport. That is one of the lamest and lousiest excuses on why people complain and dislike soccer. Do I condone flopping? Nope, not one bit. But I do realize it happens in every aspect of every sport. Clean it up all around, I agree. At least in soccer there are ramifications if a player is caught "flopping" -- it's just up to the referee to discipline it. You don't see that in any other sport.

[Goin2goal]

OSH, on 15 February 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I believe the MLB All-Star game ended in a tie a few years ago...how about that? It counts. They also still happen in college -- true story. The Japanese baseball league allows ties as well. So, while it may not be as prevalent in high school...ties still happen in baseball. Maybe I should bang my head against the wall?

Just because you don't know a coach who plays for the postseason doesn't mean that they aren't there. I know them, they exist. Yes, regular season conference titles are "important" to some, but if they know that it's attainable (and even for some, easy) they play for the postseason. They schedule their nonconference games to prepare them for the postseason. See how that works?

A "tie" is not that big of a deal. If it were, college football would've eliminated "ties" before 1968. It has nothing to do with making people feel good. It just doesn't have that much impact on the season as a whole -- or the postseason which is important.



Disallowing "ties" would do nothing to "increase attendance."

Getting rid of "off-sides" would be ridiculous. If they do that in soccer, then do it in hockey, do it in American football, and do away with foul balls in baseball. It would increase scoring and make all of them more exciting!

The late game substitutions are controlled, just not in high school -- but that is a proposal. They are controlled internationally. They are controlled in college. But it's the lousy high school associations that screw things up. Don't fret, I have made my complaints to the necessary parties to change this one.

The flopping issue doesn't even need to be addressed. It happens in every sport. That is one of the lamest and lousiest excuses on why people complain and dislike soccer. Do I condone flopping? Nope, not one bit. But I do realize it happens in every aspect of every sport. Clean it up all around, I agree. At least in soccer there are ramifications if a player is caught "flopping" -- it's just up to the referee to discipline it. You don't see that in any other sport.

MLB all star game??? Is an exhibition. Japanese league, does anyone in America even care?

Ties increasing attendance? Doubt it. But would love to see at least an OT, especially in league games.

Offsides? Don't get rid of it, just educate officials better.

Late game subs? Whatev...the official can choose to not allow the sub on, especially if they feel the coach is wasting time. Officials, must be aware of subbing patterns over the course of the game. This is a strategic part of the game.

Flopping? It will never end, especially with the poor officiating we see. I am suprised by how much more you see it in basketball and football. Again, educate the officials better, and see more cracking down on divers.

[Mysterio]

Goin2goal, on 16 February 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

MLB all star game??? Is an exhibition. Japanese league, does anyone in America even care?

Ties increasing attendance? Doubt it. But would love to see at least an OT, especially in league games.

Offsides? Don't get rid of it, just educate officials better.

Late game subs? Whatev...the official can choose to not allow the sub on, especially if they feel the coach is wasting time. Officials, must be aware of subbing patterns over the course of the game. This is a strategic part of the game.

Flopping? It will never end, especially with the poor officiating we see. I am suprised by how much more you see it in basketball and football. Again, educate the officials better, and see more cracking down on divers.

Pretty good point, I agree with what you said.

Ties can not increase or decrease the attendence. The reason for someone to not go to a soccer game is not because of the possibility of a tie. You can't change anything about the sport. Soccer is fine the way it is. Like Goin2Goal said, educate the officials better.

Edited by Mysterio, 16 February 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[caldwell]

Mysterio, on 16 February 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Pretty good point, I agree with what you said.

Ties can not increase or decrease the attendence. The reason for someone to not go to a soccer game is not because of the possibility of a tie. You can't change anything about the sport. Soccer is fine the way it is. Like Goin2Goal said, educate the officials better.

Hey, I got people talking about soccer in the middle of winter???

No one wants to change the game to make it more appealing to the Americans. Yet, complain when Americans have little interest!!

My point about the ties: All H.S. sports should have a winner and loser. After ties all fans go away unhappy, thinking they just wasted two hours of their lives. Why can't there be a tie breaker to settle things? Shoot out, less players during overtime, no goalies during overtime, coin flip SOMETHING

[Goin2goal]

Not sure I'd like to see a regular season shootout though....Bunker ball is really bad soccer to watch!

play 9v9 or something like that.