30 replies to this topic

[B-cat]

Looks like Kottenbrock will be heading to surgery could miss all of next season

[three sport man]

What does everybody think about the legion winning the Hog Creek Tourny?

[wannabe]

What does everybody think about the legion winning the Hog Creek Tourny?

Went down this weekend to watch some games. Lima is a pretty decent team inconsistent hitting but pretty solid everywhere else. Watched there game with Fostoria and their 2 pitchers (#33 and #1) handled them pretty well, Fostoria could have won if not for walks and not pushing a run across in the 7th -- 1 out and bases loaded and didnt score. Prospect put a very good team on the field as well as Findlay. Fort Wayne was just average. Overall is was a well played tournament and suprisingly umpiring was not terrible.

[countywidehasbeen]

I will have to agree that too much throwing is bad for youth/high school age pitchers! When my son was Pony League age he had an elbow "issue". He felt a sharp pain in his elbow that raced down his arm while pitching in a game. When I took him to see an Ortho I was surprised by the doctor's diagnosis. He called it some "big" name, but used "Little Leaguer's Elbow" as a lehman's term. Said it was a strain on the muscles and etc that attach to the growth plate of the humerus. He said that it was derived from too much throwing. When I asked he Ortho about curveball damage he said that is hardly ever the reason that kids hurt their arms (I, however, still tend to think too many curves can be detrimental). The Ortho said that the torque and snapping of "arm action" from too much throwing caused my son's injury. The too much throwing, however, did not come from too many pitches in games, but from too many pitches in his bedroom. My son would throw tennis balls, racquet balls and etc against his bedroom wall every day/night while watching tv. The Ortho told me to just analyze and predict how many throws my son made each day, just in his bedroom alone; while watching tv. Not to mention the pitches he had thrown in his ball games as a Little Leaguer and Pony Leaguer. Before the Ortho asked me that, I used to love the sound of the tennis balls bouncing off the walls in our house. Why? Because it meant my son was as much in love with baseball as I was when I was his age. However, the 500-2000 throws he made everyday ended up coming back to "haunt" him.
Yes, I realize that 2000 throws is alot more than 150 pitches in a game, but my son was just lobbing/quick tossing against his bedroom wall. Not heaving 85 mph fastballs and snapping off curves/sliders. I never could have realized the damage he was doing to his arm. After that elbow "issue", my son was put on a closely monitored pitch count.

[three sport man]

it's all in how you condition your arm during the winter or early spring, you can't throw only 50 pitches in practice every couple days and then go out and throw 100 pitches in a game then go try and do it again three days later. Your ligaments won't be stretched out enough to do that

[alaskan]

Throwing everyday is the philosophy for a lot of Japanese players and it was also for Bob Feller. I heard Feller himself say he threw every day. In the winter he claimed as a kid they threw in their barn.

Here is another "throw everyday" group of players. http://www.baseballnews.com/features/russell_co_hs.htm
Judging from this, if it was followed as stated, they would approach 100 throws per day (more than that as they progress)and all of it beyond 60 feet 6 inches.

[three sport man]

Throwing everyday is the philosophy for a lot of Japanese players and it was also for Bob Feller. I heard Feller himself say he threw every day. In the winter he claimed as a kid they threw in their barn.

Here is another "throw everyday" group of players. http://www.baseballnews.com/features/russell_co_hs.htm
Judging from this, if it was followed as stated, they would approach 100 throws per day (more than that as they progress)and all of it beyond 60 feet 6 inches.

well you can do that as long as your not throwing 100% every pitch

[countywidehasbeen]

With this discussion about proper/excessive throwing there is always going to be exceptions to the "rule". I, obviously, feel that youth should be monitored and put on pitch counts and etc. I think we have seen more times than not that excessive throwing diminishes velocity and can lead to arm damage. I would not recommend jumping out of an airplane with a faulty parachute, but people have and lived. But, I have also seen where people have fallen off a step ladder and died from the injuries. I'll take my chances with the ladder. HOWEVER, there are always gonna be exceptions.
I know I know!, apples and oranges...... But what I am trying to say is that there are always gonna be exceptions to every rule. Bob Fellar is not and will never be my throwing program expert. You want to talk about one grouchy, crabby, grumpy old man........ Wow! Met him once, what a miserable conversation that was.
Some of the "posters" have provided links to experts and their throwing programs and etc that stress high amounts of throwing to build arm strength. I do not have a problem with this, and actually appreciate them. But, I do feel that there are more coaches/experts out there that teach and stress less pitch counts as a way to promote healthy arms.
I think the key thing that we stress is monitoring youth. What works best for 25-35yr old MLB pitchers is a lot different than what is best for my middle schooler. My son plays multiple sports and is not able to keep up a year round throwing program. It seems that at the point that he is getting stronger and past "dead-arm".......It is soccer season and he switches gears to kicking and not throwing. And, the next Spring it starts all over again.

[alaskan]

I'd hardly discount someone's throwing expertise because I didn't like them on a personal level. Jack Morris, Jack McDowell, Kenny Rogers and others were moody, but if I was young, I'd hang on any advice they gave me. I've heard about Fellar being grouchy, but I met him twice in Florida during spring training and both times, he was fine and no I wasn't giving him money for an autograph. His arm didn't suffer from all the throwing over the years. I watched him throw out the first pitch two years ago at spring training. Better than most I've seen. Not bad for a grouchy old bassstard.


I agree with the throwing programs getting dropped due to other sports. If you read the coaches comments in the one link I posted, I don't think his high performers were going to soccer practice. They sold their soul to the program. Based upon what I see in this part of the state, the lack of those types of programs show why (with the exception of maybe Coldwater and maybe Defiance), there are no real HS dynasties here. One stud didn't get Defiance very far in the tourney, nor Shawnee. There is the constant battle for numbers of kids, the sports given attention etc. The kid has to decide it's what HE wants. Every time I read about a phenomenal program, it's full of a core group of kids who do one thing....prepare for and play ball.

[Dr. Lou]

So how's everything going with the legion team, i've been hearing they're kind of inconsistent with getting hits and pitching

[B-cat]

So how's everything going with the legion team, i've been hearing they're kind of inconsistent with getting hits and pitching

Lima Legion goes 6-0 and wins St. Marys tourney