41 replies to this topic

[kaizen]

falconfan84, on 24 February 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Rocketman & Flounder-
So are you saying if the top 2 teams in the state were located in the same district (or maybe even sectional...quite possible some years), that you wouldn't even rank the 2nd best school in your top ten...since they wouldn't advance very far in the tournament??
It seems like you are using this excuse when people ask you about certain teams that go 19-1, for example.

It could be possible to throw a "top 10" together by just picking what you consider the best teams out of each region and then at the end of the year, when most of those "top 10" were regional participants, your ranking would look pretty good. It isn't really a true measure of who the BEST teams really are, though.

nicely said. it backs up what i said some time ago. good that you are paying attention.

Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:43 PM

grub, on 01 December 2011 - 11:07 AM, said:

Just so you know for in the near future, you might want to be including Bellevue in your DII rankings. Suprised not to see them there yet.

i believe these polls are made out to basically see how many teams are still around at regional tourney time. RM and the fish on many occasions have compared the early season poll to who is still around come late in the tourney. anyone can move teams in and out of a poll base on records throughout the year (ala the AP), but accuracy in these guys polls at the beginning of the season is as important as at the end. that said, bellevue can win 20 reg. season games but if they are an early exit from the tourney (district), do they really deserve being rated.

[grub]

Thanks, my point exactly. By the way, my pick Bellevue, well they had a starter go down due to a serious car crash the other day, Lifeflighted and thank goodness is ok. So their chances to advanced are greatly diminished now.

[falconfan84]

I guess what I'm trying to say is...Are the 16 teams that make it to the Regionals the top 16 in the state?...I am SURE that they are not. A good majority of them are. However, there are some VERY good teams that will lose along the way...quite possibly to a better team (as it should be). Is it fair to tell those teams that they were not among the best? We all know how Shadyside's football team advanced to the D6 championship game in football a couple seasons ago, only to get hammered by DSJ. Shadyside was a state runner-up, but by no means were they the 2nd best team in the state...and probably not among the top 10, IMO. When stronger teams are geographically grouped together, then some deserving teams will not advance (when compared to weaker regions of the state).

[flounder]

falconfan84, on 24 February 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Rocketman & Flounder-
So are you saying if the top 2 teams in the state were located in the same district (or maybe even sectional...quite possible some years), that you wouldn't even rank the 2nd best school in your top ten...since they wouldn't advance very far in the tournament??
It seems like you are using this excuse when people ask you about certain teams that go 19-1, for example.

It could be possible to throw a "top 10" together by just picking what you consider the best teams out of each region and then at the end of the year, when most of those "top 10" were regional participants, your ranking would look pretty good. It isn't really a true measure of who the BEST teams really are, though.

falcon.......

Take a close look at our polls......I think that the top ranked teams are in them.....please point out the discrepencies of teams that we have ranked and teams you think should be ranked......it is highly unlikely that the 1 and 2 teams in the state will ever be in the same sectional.....we rank teams on merit, tradition, past tournament experience, record, coach, sos, players......I think that pretty much sums it up.....oh, and we will also give you a reply if you ask......something the AP writers do not do!!!!!!!

[flounder]

I think if you will go over our polls, you will find that we have many teams from the same region ranked in our top ten.....you must understand that some regions in Ohio are better than others....hence, they will have more teams ranked......and no....I will not rank a team from a different area just because they have a good record......prove yourself and you will get the ranking.....trust me, it has worked well for Rocketman and Flounder over the years.......Zanesville Rosencrans was defeated the other night by Berlin Hiland...surprise to me...not really....look at Hiland's tradition and past tourney experience......I also had Hiland ranked in my top 10 most of the season!!!!!

[falconfan84]

Fair enough flounder...

Also, I was probably stretching it a bit with the top 2 teams in the same sectional...but still theoretically possible. Not too many years ago (5 or 6 if my memory serves me correct...maybe grub could help me out, it was their long-time coach's last year there), Upper Sandusky, Riverdale, and Carey were in the same D3 sectional (@ Bucyrus, I think)...all 3 were ranked in the AP top 10. The same district had Margaretta, who I believe was also ranked. So there were at least 3 top 10 teams eliminated in 1 district. There might have been people thinking that each of those teams with short-lived tournament runs were either over-rated or played cupcake schedules. I would have differed with them. Anyways, when you have 3 raked teams that can't make the Sweet 16, your rankings might not look very decent to the casual observer.

Believe me...you and Rockeman do a fine job giving us your insight and rankings (which lead to some pretty good fodder at times). My 2-cent's worth here are just arguing points...nothing too serious.

[flounder]

falcon.......

Thank you, and Rocketman and myself appreciate the kind words......your opinion is why we continue with these rankings!!!!!

[DonnyDonuts]

As you all know I am new to this site this year. Just wondering how many teams Rocketman and Flounder usually have left of their top 10 by this time (district finals) with 32 teams left. I checked DIV only and see that Rocketman has 6 and Flounder has 7 left. Rocketman also has 2 of his NW Ohio teams left but one of us will be going home Saturday. While I would be very happy getting this many right are you two happy with these totals. I did see that some of your top 10 ran into each other so that hurt your totals some.

[Rocketman]

Donny,
Flounder and I Are never happy Unless we get them all right..... andy usually were better at the d 4......... so I would say no........ I'd be more inclined to look at our preseason rankings to see how we've done......... sometimes even we are biased by the AP poll.......... thank you

[tfloangel]

flounder, on 25 February 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

I think if you will go over our polls, you will find that we have many teams from the same region ranked in our top ten.....you must understand that some regions in Ohio are better than others....hence, they will have more teams ranked......and no....I will not rank a team from a different area just because they have a good record......prove yourself and you will get the ranking.....trust me, it has worked well for Rocketman and Flounder over the years.......Zanesville Rosencrans was defeated the other night by Berlin Hiland...surprise to me...not really....look at Hiland's tradition and past tourney experience......I also had Hiland ranked in my top 10 most of the season!!!!!

Hiland knocks off Shadyside last evening by 20! They finally seem to be clicking. Coach S mentioned in his post-game that this year's schedule (unquestionably the most brutal they have EVER played) could easily have broken them, but once they beat Rosecrans the confidence level rose considerably. It was closer than it looked - a 9 point game when Bonar fouled out with 2:18 left and Shady began fouling - but Hiland outplayed them in every facet of the game, only had 4 TO's, and outrebounded "the LT's" by 20+.

I don't usually like to talk them up so much, but I'm just thrilled that they've pulled it together. (That, and listening to the Shadyside feed of their game with Garaway on Tuesday night left me with a poor taste in my mouth - they clearly had high expectations of getting back to Columbus )

[flounder]

Certainly happy to see Midpark winning......on to the regional!!!!!

[flounder]

I attended the New Knoxville/USV game yesterday, and just want to say that the New Knoxville Rangers are coming alive at the right time...this team is playing very good basketball.....keep this name in your memory bank....she is a sophomore and her name is Haley Horstman....I can't remember the last time a sophomore was voted MAC player of the year, but she accomplished that.....she plays point guard and is very talented....the Rangers also have a pretty decent front line led mostly by the Heidt girl who has really been playing well as of late......I just don't know how Flounder missed this team and only had them in his others!!!!!

[Rocketman]

DonnyDonuts, on 02 March 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

As you all know I am new to this site this year. Just wondering how many teams Rocketman and Flounder usually have left of their top 10 by this time (district finals) with 32 teams left. I checked DIV only and see that Rocketman has 6 and Flounder has 7 left. Rocketman also has 2 of his NW Ohio teams left but one of us will be going home Saturday. While I would be very happy getting this many right are you two happy with these totals. I did see that some of your top 10 ran into each other so that hurt your totals some.

Donny,
A little update and while I'm a little embarrassed by this, but full disclosure is necessary.

going back to mid November before the first girls games were even played the Flounder & I put out our pre-season rankings like we have for the previous 9 years.....this year
is probably the worst we have ever done in our comparative analysis when factoring in the teams left in the Sweet 16 at this juncture of the season.....

out of 40 possible teams I have only 23 teams still alive.........that is in comparison to the 2008-09 season when I had 33 teams still alive at the regional level.....
Flounder has 25 teams still bouncing the ball, as compared to his best-ever 32 teams during the same season........so we'll take our lumps and hope to bounce
back next year.........we might have actually watched too much basketball over the summer and started to believe in things we normally have distanced ourselves......
I hope that we will have the chance to redeem ourselves next year............thanks RM

Quote

Statewide Division I

Twinsburg
Canton McKinley
Lakota East
Cincinnati Princeton
Cincinnati Ursuline
Columbus Northland
Wadsworth
Kettering Fairmont
Sylvania Northview
North Canton Hoover

Division II

Toledo Rogers
Dayton Carroll
Hathaway Brown
Clyde
Chaminade Julienne
Millersburg West Holmes
Mentor Lake Catholic
Cincinnati Indian Hill
Lima Bath
Kettering Alter

Division III

Anna
Columbus Africentric
Liberty Benton
Orrville
Cincinnati Summit Country Day
Oak Hill
Youngstown Ursuline
Miami East
Bucyrus Wynford
Hamilton Badin

Division IV

Zanesville Rosecrans
Madison Tri Village
Ottoville
Minster
Waterford
Berlin Hiland
Delphos St. Johns
Cincinnati Country Day
Mansfield St. Pete
Marion Local

[flounder]

Rocketman.......

LMAO.......only 23 and 25......I feel that even though our expectations are always high, no one can argue with our success.....mainly because no one has ever attempted to do what we do......if you cannot accept failure, you will never be a winner.....just a little quote I thought up..........Rocketman and Flounder Know Girls HS Basketball!!!!!!

[Rocketman]

Flound,
I did have an exceptionally good year with 8/10 teams in D2........but my D4 prognostications went rather poorly with only 4 still playing this week........certainly not
what I expected and something that will have to be remedied next season..........I am looking for the final AP rankings to see how there numbers compare........RM

[Rocketman]

To all of our loyal followers here at the RC............

after checking further I have found that the FINAL AP rankings were better than the "Flounder & Rocketman's" pre-season rankings.......
but not by a lot mind you

the final AP rankings listed 6 D1, 6 D2, 8 D3, and 4 D4 teams that are still playing this week in the girls state tournament...........for a total of 24 teams,
which does better my totals................BUT pales in comparison to Flounder's.
the guy is a true basketball junkie!.........our rankings came out in mid-November and the final AP's was in February after 18 or so games had been played.......
unfortunately, the Flounder and I don't get that luxury...........like we always say, the "proof is in the pudding" and WE KNOW GIRLS BASKETBALL!!


PS.......both Flounder & myself have 28 teams still alive if you count our Final Rankings!!.....but then again, anyone should be able to do that
after watching nearly the entire season........lol

[Coach]

Once again the Rocket and Flounder show their expertise in the polls. To do as well as they do is an understatement. Congrats on another wonderful year and strong showing. You guys definitely know your girls basketball. I am lucky If I know about one division yet alone 4 divisions.

Can't wait till next year. Hint: Hathaway Brown is loaded but you guys already know that!

[flounder]

Coach......

Thank you for the kind words......we do put in alot of hours attempting to give high school girls their due!!!!

[Rocketman]

Stay tuned for an exclusive interview with arlington amelia recker later this week....... only on the rocket corner

[Rocketman]

flounder, on 19 February 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

It's hard to believe that this will be our final rankings of the season........we are approaching tournament time which is definitely the wildest time of the season for high school sports, plus the fact that spring is fast approaching.....it has been another fun year and I have certainly enjoyed the weekly banter from our fans.....it does seem that we have lost one of our staunchest critics......that being Mr. Ricky Roe who I noticed has not posted for awhile......but, that doesn't mean he is not reading our polls.....I am sure that if Midpark advances rather far into the tournament that Ricky will be back in full force loading up our final polls thread with numerous posts......something to the effect of..."I told you so"......by the way, Rocketman and Flounder hear very little of that kind of talk and I suspect that will be the norm again as we approach the end of the season with a fine finished product........as you all know by now......Rocketman and Flounder do put out a pretty impressive poll of each division in Ohio..... as Rocketman explained in his final polls edition.......we have a unique formula which has paid huge dividends for us and our readers.....we are not afraid to take the heat because in the end, our results usually stand above the other guys......although, I must admit that the flow of cash cards has dropped substantially, much to our chagrin.......that will not diminish the fact that we will still give our readers a finished product that they can trust in......oh, did I ever mention that Rocketman and Flounder Know Girls High School Basketball......just a little something we thought up......kind of a trademark of ours....this is always the best time of the season and I certainly hope that everyone enjoys just what the tournament atmosphere provides........

Not many changes in my polls........just subtle moves from teams who have been there most of the season.......also, this could be a first for our polls since we started posting them on the net......Rocketman and Flounder actually agree on our 4 mythical division champions for the 2011-2012 basketball season.......

D1.....Reynoldsburg
D2.....Hathaway Brown
D3.....Anna
D4.....Ottoville

I might also mention that Ottoville is being threatened by Arlington, who has really impressed as the season rolled on. Well enough of the banter and time for my final polls of the season......again, and as always we appreciate any and all replies from our faithful readers expressing their views and opinions.......it may be to late to change our minds, but we certainly look forward to hearing from you.....your replies are what makes these polls.......you won't hear the AP boys say that.....hope to see you at Roosters on March 15!!!!!!!!

D 1

Reynoldsburg
Twinsburg
Pickerington North
Columbus Northland
Kettering Fairmont
Cincy Princeton
Springboro
Sycamore
Zanesville
Midpark
Others: Canton McKinley, Sylvania N'view, Wadsworth, Uniontown Lake, Olentangy Orange

D 2

Hathaway Brown
Dayton Carroll
Chaminade Julienne
Akron Hoban
Akron Manchester
Lima Bath
Clyde
Toledo Rogers
Shelby
Ravenna
Others: Belloit W Branch, Bellevue, Clinton Massie, W. Holmes, Kettering Alter

D 3

Anna
Smithville
Middletown Madison
Orrville
Africentric
Archbold
Liberty Benton
Hamilton Badin
Proctorville Fairland.......best kept secret of the season
Oak Hill
Others: Georgetown, Miami East, Fort Frye, Y'town Ursuline, Elyria Catholic

D 4

Ottoville
Newark Catholic
Arlington
Marion Local
Waterford
Zanesville Rosencrans
Mansfield St Peter's
Madison Tri Village
Minster
Shadyside
Others: Lowelville, Reedsville Eastern, Fort Recovery, New Knoxville, Delphos St John's

Northwest Ohio

D 1

Sylvania N'view
Toledo Notre Dame
Toledo Central Catholic
Perrysburg
Findlay

D 2

Lima Bath
Clyde
Toledo Rogers
Shelby
Bellevue

D 3

Anna
Archbold
Liberty Benton
St Henry
Lima Central Catholic

D 4

Ottoville
Arlington
Marion Local
Mansfield St Peter's
Minster

Rocketman, on 19 February 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

Our final rankings of the season dovetails nicely into the girls basketball tournament underway this week........The "Flounder & Rocketman's" Girls
HS Rankings continue to garner accolades as the best rankings that you can find anywhere.......yes, I said anywhere!

For the past 10 years we believe that we have this down to a science.......(not saying the Flound or I were chemistry majors)........ours has traditionally
focused on results that can be measured by tournament success. Like we've said many times in the past, a gaudy record does nothing to impress....
Strength of Schedule weighs heavily into our formula, and continued excellence on the Big Stage certainly adds to this. We will be presenting our annual awards on Thursday March 15 at 8:00pm during state tournament weekend.........

For the last 9 years the Varsity Club on Lane Ave. has been the site of this awards ceremony........We have been asked by the proprietors of the VC if we could possibly find another venue for this year.........you see, last year we had some very unhappy South Euclid Regina fans who took umbrage with our D3 poll champion .......so we have made arrangments with the management staff at Roosters on Olentangy River Road to have it done there.....we are
hoping that this is just a 1 year thing, but since Lake Ridge Academy will probably be eligible next year, we are holding off on that announcement until later........

I can't begin to tell you how much fun the Flound and I have in doing these rankings and I'm sorry that we've missed a few this year.......unlike the AP pollsters who infrequently actually watch the teams that they are ranking, we attempt to get out a couple of times each week and get a better idea on
what teams are capable of producing.........this leaves precious little time to do everything else that must be done during the week.........now that I am semi-retired (more like retired, rehired) I hope to be able to devout even more time in making the RC an even more enjoyable place to visit and somewhere where you can get the "inside scoop" on more than who the next coach of a certain team is going to be, or what is some of the inner-workings at School A............

I've carried on long enough, and again I want to convey my sincerest thanks to everyone who follows these rankings..........we are always available and willing to answer any questions about how we arrive at these and look forward to your continued comments............MY POLL Champions of the 2011-12 season are........

D1 Reynoldsburg
D2 Hathaway Brown
D3 Anna
D4 Ottoville

Statewide
Division I

Reynoldsburg
Twinsburg
Kettering Fairmont
Pickerington North
Canton McKinley
Toledo Notre Dame
Springboro
Sylvania Northview
Midpark
Cincinnati Princeton


Division II

Hathaway Brown
Chaminade Julienne
Dayton Carroll
Toledo Rogers
Clyde
Akron Hoban
Lima Bath
Millersburg W. Holmes
Mentor Lake Catholic
Beloit West Branch

Division III

Anna
Liberty Benton
Columbus Africentric
Oak Hill
Archbold
Beverly Fort Frye
Middletown Madison
Hamilton Badin
Proctorville Fairland

Division IV

Ottoville
Newark Catholic
Mansfield St. Peter
Arlington
Waterford
Zanesville Rosecrans
Madison Tri Village
Marion Local
Fort Recovery
Minster

NW Ohio D I Top 10
Tolede Notre Dame
Sylvania Northview
Toledo Central Catholic
Toledo Waite
Perrysburg
Lima Senior
Sylvania Southview
Toledo St. Ursula
Findlay
Anthony Wayne


NW Ohio D2
Toledo Rogers
Clyde
Lima Bath
Lima Shawnee
Sandusky Perkins
Bellevue
Celina
Shelby
Willard
Wapakoneta


NW Ohio D3
Anna
Liberty Benton
Archbold
Versailles
Evergreen
Millbury Lake
Margaretta
Coldwater
St. Henry
LIma Central Catholic


NW Ohio D4
Ottoville
Mansfield St. Pete
Arlington
Marion Local
Minster
Miller City
Arcadia
New Riegel
Delphos Jefferson
Delphos St. Johns

I just wanted to bring back a bit of the F&R rankings from a few years back