58 replies to this topic

[Old Man P]

What about the state worker. State employees are covered by these unions as well and have taken PAY FREEZES for close to, if not, 9 years now just to make the state happy. Thats ok though?

[Courtdad1998]

A couple of things come to mind if someone stays in a job where their salary is frozen for 9 years.

1. They must have made way too much to begin with.
2. They are still possibly getting overpaid
3. They must not be too unhappy or they would have left and found something else.

[Osu4me]

ADog......I agree with you also, and I am not completely against unions....I just feel they have got out of control.....because the unions stand behind workers who do not want to work or even care about their fellow employees, we have a problem of under achieving..so to speak....I heard it all the time from employees at Ford and GM...."hell, we don't have to work because our union will have our back"......when you have workers with this attitude(who should not be even working).....it is understandable why jobs are leaving this country......also, wages have got out of hand....wonder why.....high wages with lazy a$$ employees backed by the union with those same laborers bragging about not working and still getting high wages while they are slacking has something to say about unions......I am in agreement with you ADog about the CEO's and big wigs, but maybe we as the American public are getting the shaft by both!!!!!!

BINGO!!!!! Flounder you took the word right out of my mouth!!!

[Old Man P]

A couple of things come to mind if someone stays in a job where their salary is frozen for 9 years.

1. They must have made way too much to begin with.
2. They are still possibly getting overpaid
3. They must not be too unhappy or they would have left and found something else.

A couple of things come to mind after reading your post.

1. What does Courtdad do for income because obviously he makes a lot doing what he does. *A state worker doing what I do starts at $17.22/hr
2. Did Courtdad get his money from a rich parent and hasn't had to work for money and worry about not having enough money at the end of the month to save any?

P.S.
I don't know if you noticed but jobs don't grow on trees and Unemployment rates are still extremely high. Although if you listen to these SO CALLED experts unemployment rates continue to drop. OBVIOUSLY, that happens when ppl RUN OUT of benefits and are NO LONGER counted into that rate because by rating standards they are not on Unemployment anymore..

These announcement is endorsed and paid for by OMP.

[Hound Dog]

can't be accurate to tell how many hours a teacher works. i know for a fact that my wife does not have to clock in or clock out at school so this is bogus. also how do they take into account the time she grades papers, does lesson plans, and things of that nature at home? all they can do is have them down for time they are contracted to be at the school- hours per day, conferences, and meetings. some of the other info would be correct like salaries and such but can not give an accurate account to how much time a teacher puts in, sorry.

I'm sorry....but I don't get paid when I take my work home with me........most teachers have a sign in time and a time that they can leave. Usually it's about 7.5 hours. Plus they get a paid lunch and "free period". That makes 6.5 hours a day. (x5 days) = 32.5 hours. Now that's not to bad when you consider that most starting pay is around 29,000 and after 15 years they are getting paid 46+

Plus how many teachers work more than the required 180 days a year. AND if they do they get paid extra.

Another thing....how many times has a teacher after negotiations actually lost money from the previous contract? Most times school boards and teachers unions make it to where it doesn't cost them anything to agree to the contract.

The taxpayer is ALWAYS the loser.

[labatts69]

I'm sorry....but I don't get paid when I take my work home with me........most teachers have a sign in time and a time that they can leave. Usually it's about 7.5 hours. Plus they get a paid lunch and "free period". That makes 6.5 hours a day. (x5 days) = 32.5 hours. Now that's not to bad when you consider that most starting pay is around 29,000 and after 15 years they are getting paid 46+

Plus how many teachers work more than the required 180 days a year. AND if they do they get paid extra.

Another thing....how many times has a teacher after negotiations actually lost money from the previous contract? Most times school boards and teachers unions make it to where it doesn't cost them anything to agree to the contract.

The taxpayer is ALWAYS the loser.

you are missing the point there about the hours. i stated that it is not accurate how many hours that they work by what is on the website. nothing about them not getting paid for taking home work to do. that is what happens when you get paid salary. i am simply saying that most all teachers work more than 6.25 hours per day like what the website said. maybe you should go back to school for comprehension classes so you can understand what i typed.

yep, taxpayers always lose when these people educate their kids for the better of tomorrow. many teachers today spend more time with people's kids than the parents do due to different job shifts and such. remember, you are on here typing and reading because a teacher taught you how to. so let's cut the teacher's pay, make them unhappy, and then see what type of future teachers you get to go into this profession. sounds like a logical thing to do.

[Courtdad1998]

1. What does Courtdad do for income because obviously he makes a lot doing what he does. *A state worker doing what I do starts at $17.22/hr
2. Did Courtdad get his money from a rich parent and hasn't had to work for money and worry about not having enough money at the end of the month to save any?

Not sure how or why you are assuming that I make a lot doing what I do considering we have never met. I do however do alright since you've asked. And lIMO, $36k a year with benefits and a pension sounds pretty decent for starting pay. It's higher than my current salary, or my wifes for that matter.

Not sure where you're going with number 2, but no I didn't come from rich parents.

And as far as the bad economy, it hasn't been bad for 9 years.

[LimaJock]

I don't really care much about all this till the dust settles, but I think parents should be thrown in jail if their kid is unexcused absent more than 10 days a school year. That might improve student attendance and attitudes. This is my quick and dirty method for school improvement.

Also, some other suggestions. Lets cut costs my eliminating all bus service, sports, and only have the school cleaned every other day. Eliminate the school cafeteria and only operate 6 hours per day with no study halls. Eliminate most if not all administrators except the treasure and have a teacher from each building report directly to the board for those teachers who are left since 30-40 per class is acceptable. Wont need Physical education, Art, Wood Shop, or Home econ classes. Have I mentioned that public schools will be eliminated. Everything private, so now private schools will have to accept everyone.

I say some of this in jest, but in 10 years you all will be surprised how much of this is in place.

[white_shadow]

And as far as the bad economy, it hasn't been bad for 9 years.

You're correct, the economy hasn't been bad for 9 years but......as a State of Ohio employee, 3 of our last 4 contracts have had a minimum of 2 years of pay freezes (out of 3 year contracts). I will say 9 years of pay freezes is innaccurate because there were raises of around 2% in the 3rd year of two of those contracts. This past contract had paycuts of 4% the last 2 years and this July (beginning of the 3rd year) we're supposed to go back to just a freeze (no cut, no raise). So to put it in perspective, I have gained around 10% in the last 12 years.......0.83% raise per year over the last 12 years, not exactly living high on the hog. Also, my health care premiums have gone up 251% in the last 10 years. If I remember correctly, it went up around 133% between 2001and 2006 and went up another 51% between 2006 and 2011. While our premiums went up, so did our deductibles......the overall quality of the plan however, went down rather drastically.

I guess my point is, collective bargaining is not the reason the State of Ohio is $8,000,000,000 in debt. These numbers I have stated are not made up, they are what OCSEA members and the State of Ohio "negotiated" over the last 12 years. And I'm not complaining, I have a decent job and know that I'm blessed......just tired of hearing how we are the root of the budgetary problems facing the state when the reality is the root of the problem is the 25 year old (and the thousands just like him) that plays Xbox all day, smokes dope all night, goes to the doctor when his nose runs because his bills are written off by charging those of us with insurance double to cover his worthless arse all the while hoping to score some prescription drugs that he can sell to his buddies so he can buy more Xbox games and more weed.........Just sayin!

[flounder]

when the reality is the root of the problem is the 25 year old (and the thousands just like him) that plays Xbox all day, smokes dope all night, goes to the doctor when his nose runs because his bills are written off by charging those of us with insurance double to cover his worthless arse all the while hoping to score some prescription drugs that he can sell to his buddies so he can buy more Xbox games and more weed.........Just sayin!

Shadow......

I really don't think this is even remotely why we as a state are having our problems......it is a combination of many things much more serious than what you mentioned!!!!!!

[white_shadow]

Shadow......

I really don't think this is even remotely why we as a state are having our problems......it is a combination of many things much more serious than what you mentioned!!!!!!

So you honestly don't believe we have tens of thousands of free loaders out there that are a drag on the state budget.....really? I'm not talking about those who are unable to help themselves, I have no problem helping them. I'm talking about those as described above who know it's easier to abuse the system than to actually go out and get a job to support themselves. I'm willing to confess that they may not be the root of the problem as I stated in my post above, but I won't back off the stance that they are a much bigger problem than collective bargaining (at least at the state level). I suppose we all have different ideas of what the problems are and what the solutions should be. I'm just tired of hearing how public employees have not shared in the pain when in fact we have given pay and benefits back. And I fully expect to give again when the next contract rolls around (assuming there even is such a thing as a contract).

As for local public employees, I was quite shocked to read about the contract that was just negotiated between the City of Columbus and its employees. Three years, three raises (2%,2%,2.5%) while for the first time having to pay a portion of their pension (1% in first year, 2% in second year, 3% in third year). Also raise their share of health insurance premium from 9% to 10% in 2013. Now that's a problem......I can understand why taxpayers have issues with public entities that are not contributing to their own pensions and paying pretty minimal towards health insurance premiums and geting raises in this economy. Gives all of us a bad rep......but trust me, we don't all have such deals.

[Duh Huh Dull Sucks]

I read an article somewhere today that said 35% of all money earned ends up paying for entitlement programs. So, more than 1/3 of my income goes to pay for someone else to stay at home? Great! So, essentially if one out of every 3 people are not working, this person receives 2/3 of what I receive for doing nothing.

Gotta love how democrats have ruined the country!

Incidentally, Idaho passed a bill to nix some union collective bargaining privileges yesterday. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110309/us_nm/us_states_unions_5 I believe every state mentioned in the article has a Republican governor (Idaho, Indiana, Michigan, Iowa, Florida, Ohio, and Wisconsin). Ironic, however, that these bills are currently in 15 states right now. I believe Maine ®, Tennessee ®, Oklahoma ®, and Nevada ® also have these bills. BUT, there are bills also in state with Democrat governors - California, Washington, Massachusetts, and Connecticut. The Connecticut Governor essentially got elected by unions in one of the closest elections in history and he has come out and told the unions that the ONLY way to get Connecticut back on track and out of a 3-billion dollar deficit, after taking other measures already, is to begin to go after the unions. Boy, that sure has ticked the unions off there!!! Further, there are already 12 states that don't allow collective bargaining as it is.

Draw your own conclusions from all this, but one thing is clear - this isn't a localized problem concerning unions. It is nationwide. And no matter the gripes put up by unions and union members, it is clear that for states to get things back in order financially, the union is the first place that HAS to be looked at.

In the end, maybe we can put to work some of those people who collect a check and sit at home playing their Xbox Keep some of that 35% in MY pocket!

[slice slice baby]

Just for the record..... I've ALWAYS stayed home, but don't collect any 'assistance' (although, Lord knows I sure could use some! )

[white_shadow]

Just for the record..... I've ALWAYS stayed home, but don't collect any 'assistance' (although, Lord knows I sure could use some! )

Slice....I'm certainly not referring to stay at home moms or those who can afford to not have to work. Quite frankly, I wish I was in that boat. Now I do have a problem with the stay at home welfare mom who thinks that a "merit raise" means having more kids so her welfare check increases. If a young person makes a mistake and tries his/her best to dig out of their hole, I have no problem helping them get on their feet. But those who continually just abuse the system because they get a raise everytime they abuse it, well yeah, I have a slight issue with that.

Edited by white_shadow, 09 March 2011 - 09:16 PM.

[slice slice baby]

Slice....I'm certainly not referring to stay at home moms or those who can afford to not have to work. Quite frankly, I wish I was in that boat. Now I do have a probably with the stay at home welfare mom who thinks that a "merit raise" means having more kids so her welfare check increases. If a young person makes a mistake and tries his/her best to dig out of their hole, I have no problem helping them get on their feet. But those who continually just abuse the system because they get a raise everytime they abuse it, well yeah, I have a slight issue with that.

I knew exactly what you & the others meant, deary... I was just being my goofy self!

[white_shadow]

I knew exactly what you & the others meant, deary... I was just being my goofy self!

Yeah, I know......just wanted to clarify my position.

March 15th will be an interesting day. I'm not going to lie, as a state employee, this upcoming budget scares the crap out of me and I don't think I'm alone. The cuts are going to be deep and they are going to be quite painful for some. Hoping for the best but preparing for something much less than that.

Might have to check into that selling of ads for Rocketman thing to supplement my income.......

[Old Man P]

I think we should just become a full out socialist country and let it be ran by the gov't and take it how they wanna give it to us..if they want drastic changes lets go all out..

Edited by Old Man P, 10 March 2011 - 12:06 PM.

[totallytiger]

Yes because I think it helps protect the teachers from the railroading parents. You know the ones who seem to think their kid can do no wrong.

[DaGhoul]

I don't really care much about all this till the dust settles, but I think parents should be thrown in jail if their kid is unexcused absent more than 10 days a school year. That might improve student attendance and attitudes. This is my quick and dirty method for school improvement.

Can anyone say Fourth Reich?