13 replies to this topic

[UGAdawg]

Today Papa Joe's statue came down. Since Papa Joe and his wife gave money every year to the school, then shouldn't that be returned to the family? wouldn't it be dirty money now? I bet Penn State never thought about that! LOL

[ADog]

lol..I was thinking the same thing last night when I 1st heard the decision was made to take it down.....then I heard this morming that Penn State was keeping the name "Paterno" on their library which was basically built with JoPa's money.....

[UGAdawg]

we all know that name will soon come off the library. 50 years from now some student will find the Papa Joe statue under a tarp in a warehouse and PSU will put it up somewhere again. Never falls, but I will be dead in 50 years so I won't see it happen.

I have to laugh at some of the media saying today the NCAA was close to giving PSU the death penalty, I don't know what else it was?I guess we can say for sure the NCAA "castrated" Penn State, and the Big 10 finished what was left. I do think the NCAA has too much power, but we are stuck with them until some of the major schools step out and form their own pack.

[Common Sense]

I think if he "GAVE" the money to Penn State, he no longer has any say in what happens.

The longer this goes, we may find out this money from the Paterno's was hush money. The NCAA had to step in. Up to this point Penn State has not even attempted to penalize themselves, other than taking the statue down.

[paynepanthers]

The NCAA is an association that was created by and is run by the members of the association, nothing more nothing less. Every rule that exists within the NCAA by-laws was developed by, brought forth by and voted upon by the membership. The reason the rules exist is because someone was deemed to have been gaining an unfair advantage over others by doing something shady. As in any association there are those who voted no on any particular rule, statute, by-law, etc., but the idea that the NCAA is run independently of its member institutions is false. The Presidents and Chancellors of the member NCAA institutions are the leadership of the NCAA. If you want to see things run differently contact your local or favorite college President or Chancellor and tell him or her why they are wrong in how they are running the NCAA. If you want the wild, wild, west where there are no academic standards, where various sources can pay players any amount to play, and "win at all costs" is truly the only measuring stick then maybe college athletics isn't really what you are looking for. Now that Penn State is operating with 65 scholarships I hope that DI football moves to 65 scholarships period, no FBS, no FCS, just DI football.

[paynepanthers]

http://web1.ncaa.org...mitteeName=EXEC

NCAA Executive Committee

http://web1.ncaa.org...itteeName=BOARD

NCAA DI Board of Directors


http://www.ncaa.org/...mmert+biography

Emmert former President/Chancellor Washington, LSU, and UConn



http://www.ncaa.org/...rcement/People/

Infractions Committee

http://www.ncaa.org/...peals+Committee

Infractions Appeals Committee

(Each sport also has rules committees made up a college/university based coaches and administrators that take rules questions, suggestions and discussions from across the membership both from individual schools and or conferences that govern the sport for which the committee is named)

Edited by paynepanthers, 25 July 2012 - 07:52 AM.

[Dr. Lou]

paynepanthers, on 24 July 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

The NCAA is an association that was created by and is run by the members of the association, nothing more nothing less. Every rule that exists within the NCAA by-laws was developed by, brought forth by and voted upon by the membership. The reason the rules exist is because someone was deemed to have been gaining an unfair advantage over others by doing something shady. As in any association there are those who voted no on any particular rule, statute, by-law, etc., but the idea that the NCAA is run independently of its member institutions is false. The Presidents and Chancellors of the member NCAA institutions are the leadership of the NCAA. If you want to see things run differently contact your local or favorite college President or Chancellor and tell him or her why they are wrong in how they are running the NCAA. If you want the wild, wild, west where there are no academic standards, where various sources can pay players any amount to play, and "win at all costs" is truly the only measuring stick then maybe college athletics isn't really what you are looking for. Now that Penn State is operating with 65 scholarships I hope that DI football moves to 65 scholarships period, no FBS, no FCS, just DI football.

I've heard this discussed by a couple NCAA D3 coaches/athletic directors. Do not be surprised if this topic leads to the "Big Time" D1 schools creating their own association because of the STUPID rules the NCAA has. An association where players can get paid and they can get away from the NCAA. This would ruin NCAA D1 and D2 sports because they're funded by D1 schools but atleast the big schools can now do what they want.

[paynepanthers]

Dr. Lou, on 25 July 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I've heard this discussed by a couple NCAA D3 coaches/athletic directors. Do not be surprised if this topic leads to the "Big Time" D1 schools creating their own association because of the STUPID rules the NCAA has. An association where players can get paid and they can get away from the NCAA. This would ruin NCAA D1 and D2 sports because they're funded by D1 schools but atleast the big schools can now do what they want.

Every rule that exists in NCAA DI was written by NCAA DI members, discussed by NCAA DI members and voted on and approved by NCAA DI members. If they thought they were stupid they shouldn't have voted for them at the time. The big time football schools couldn't even hold themselves together to create equitable television packages. http://en.wikipedia....all_Association I doubt they would be able to hold themselves together in some sort of alternative athletic association. They have proven over and over that if they can cheat they will. You would soon have schools breaking away because they would argue their athletes actually go to class while other schools just have hired hands play for them.

[slice slice baby]

There’s been no shortage of late when it comes colleges breaking or ignoring rules, laws, ethics, morals. The crimes at Penn State relating to Jerry Sandusky obviously top the list, but Ohio State, USC, Miami, and countless other schools have also been caught breaking NCAA rules in recent years. While it’s fairly easy to direct punishment toward the individual(s) responsible for the crimes (i.e. Jerry Sandusky), things become quite murky when it comes to the punishment colleges and universities should face when crimes are committed on their campus. Is it fair to prevent current coaches and student athletes (most, if not all, are innocent of the charges brought against their former coaches and teammates) from enjoying the spirit of future competition through bowl bans and lost scholarships? Or should the focus be exclusively on the individuals found guilty of breaking rules/laws?
The Death Penalty?
Take Penn State for a moment – they are going to be closely examined by the NCAA for “lack of institutional control” in the coming days, and some have even suggested they may face the end-all, be-all of NCAA punishment – the death penalty. Is it fair for Penn State to have their football team become extinct over the next few years because of the gross oversights and irresponsibility by coaches and administrators who have already either been fired (Curley, Spanier, and Schultz), jailed (Sandusky), or died (Paterno)? By all accounts, the current administrators and student athletes do not appear to have any connection to the Sandusky crimes, yet there is a strong possibility they will be the ones faced with the penalties committed by the men before them.
I’m not at all suggesting that institutions be let off the hook for rule breaking and crimes committed on their campuses, but I am recommending that the penalties that follow should be well thought out and crafted in a way that stings the institution, but doesn’t bury them from ever having the chance to rebuild a tarnished reputation created by people who are no longer part of the school.
A Better Solution…
The best answer, in my opinion, is to come up with a way to both allow the current program to still play competitively (and possibly win league championships, etc), but somehow ding them financially (like make all the earnings go toward a scholarship or charity). Trust me, if the school feels it in the wallet, you can be sure they will take better measures and oversight when it comes to compliance issues in the future. Just think, if a school like Penn State is still able to play for league and bowl championships in the near future, how great would it be if every dime they earn through tickets, merchandising, and all other means went directly to future academic scholarships and/or charities desperate for funding to help find cures for things like cancer, or help out children who have been victims of sexual abuse?
If you want to take a handful of scholarships away I’m fine with that, but I think allowing colleges to still field competitive teams in the aftermath of violations committed by personnel no longer with the school can actually be a good thing. When colleges can still remain competitive, current student athletes and coaches not connected to the previous crimes can continue to compete, and the reputation of the college can continue to be repaired.
Money = Problems
Interestingly, the real problem in college sports and the origin for almost all of these recent crimes has to do with money — with tens of millions of dollars to be secured each year, it has made it very easy for sport administrators and coaches to turn the other way, ignore, play dumb, lie, deny, and commit countless ethical violations while at the same time boasting of “teaching athletes about values, morals, etc.” At PSU, Sandusky would have been reported years ago if the Penn State brand wasn’t at-risk (and therefore the revenue that goes with it), and at Ohio State it’s likely former Coach Jim Tressel would have paid more attention to the brand new cars his better players were driving if he weren’t on the verge of a potential championship season. If the money ever gets under control at the college level, and more in line with what colleges say they are (academic institutions first, sports second), only then will sport administrators and coaches more readily act on the law breaking and crimes they become aware of while acting as leaders of their respective programs. Short of this happening, you can expect more of the same in the future — more ignorance and denials — as it literally “pays” to not come clean.
www.drstankovich.com

[slice slice baby]

Earlier this week I offered opinions about how let down I was that NCAA President Mark Emmert assumed so little (any?) responsibility for the crimes that occurred at Penn State that resulted in their unprecedented sanctions. Of course, Emmert and the NCAA are not directly responsible for Jerry Sandusky abusing kids, but I believe they (NCAA) are responsible for creating and enabling the professionalization of college sports, which directly related to how PSU football was put on such a pedestal, which in turn prevented countless people from blowing the whistle on Sandusky (and the PSU program) as early as 1998. As the millions and millions of dollars rolled in, the NCAA fanned the fire by sitting on the sidelines and enjoyed all the riches, inevitably knowing that college sports (especially football) were clearly trumping academics and becoming bigger than life. And it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to speculate that when millions of dollars are rolling in, there will be an inverse relationship with self reporting of crimes (why would anyone want to shoot themselves in the foot?).
What we saw this week instead was Emmert scold PSU as though the crimes that occurred took place in a vacuum, devoid of the bigger system that has watched amateur sports morph into professional sports in every sense of the word. As college athletic facilities have developed into multi-million dollar complexes, and head coaches have enjoyed $5 million dollar contracts, private jets, and country club memberships, do you think for a second the NCAA didn’t suspect that hey, maybe this is getting a little bigger than we ever imagined, and maybe this new “academic” paradigm might inevitably do us in down the road? With such a blatant mockery of higher education, the NCAA has helped create football factory schools that have morphed into rock star status at colleges across the country. And then, when a school messes up (ala PSU), Emmert says tsk-tsk and tells them they need a better academic/athletic balance?? No “we helped create this,” or “we should have worked harder to stop athletic programs from becoming so much more important than the very academic institutions they rent space from.” As I said in a previous column, when you have assistant football coaches and strength coaches making significantly more in salary than professors, deans, and other important college administrative personnel, something is seriously wrong.
So what to do with this mess you might ask? I have been asked that question a lot lately, and would like to expand on a few very real measures the NCAA can begin with immediately — that is, if they are serious about increasing the value of academics while concurrently minimizing the odds for future corruption and rule breaking.
Work with the NFL to create a Developmental League, similar to the NBA-D League that currently serves as a primer for talented players who might not yet be ready for the NBA. With this approach, high school players who are talented enough could bypass college (and lets be honest, there are plenty of players who only want the NFL and aren’t interested in college anyway) and immediately begin the professional sports careers. Coincidentally, this approach already exists in professional baseball, too. This new football D-League would also temper the over-the-top shenanigans college football coaches engage in while courting future star players, as they know that a couple 5-star guy will likely lead to bigger and fatter coach contracts (herein where a TON of the corruption starts).
Put caps on college football coaches salaries. This suggestion is purely from a common sense angle — where else does an employee of an organization make 5 times the amount of money as the president? Colleges, that’s where! Think about how nuts that is — in many of the colleges across the country the football coach not only crushes the salary of professors and all administrators, but even college presidents – and sometimes by as much as 5 times the amount! With caps in place, elite-level college coaches can then decide if they want to stick with college coaching or move onto the NFL (either way, college football will be fine).
New revenue distribution that allows for athletic earnings to be dispersed through the college, allowing for better scholarships, employee pay, and campus improvement (amongst other things). Instead of justifying the money stay in athletics because “that’s where it’s earned,” how about a little more sharing and dedication to improving the overall college, and not just lining the pockets of coaches with millions of more dollars?
As I mentioned earlier this week, if no changes are made and the NCAA only responds to problems in the future in a reactive, punitive manner, then I guarantee we will see more rule breaking and corruption in the future. The reality is that when there are big dollars, there will always be corruption. The good news is the NCAA and colleges can work together to improve upon this problem, and really, still “have their cake and eat it, too.” Colleges can scale back and re-emphasize academics, and still have school athletic pride and revenues (it just won’t always go back to funding coach salaries and athletic facilities). Sadly, its greed that has led to what we see in college sports today, and without strong leadership in place, we are likely only seeing the beginning of much bigger problems down the road.
www.drstankovich.com

[Common Sense]

slice slice baby, on 26 July 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Earlier this week I offered opinions about how let down I was that NCAA President Mark Emmert assumed so little (any?) responsibility for the crimes that occurred at Penn State that resulted in their unprecedented sanctions. Of course, Emmert and the NCAA are not directly responsible for Jerry Sandusky abusing kids, but I believe they (NCAA) are responsible for creating and enabling the professionalization of college sports, which directly related to how PSU football was put on such a pedestal, which in turn prevented countless people from blowing the whistle on Sandusky (and the PSU program) as early as 1998. As the millions and millions of dollars rolled in, the NCAA fanned the fire by sitting on the sidelines and enjoyed all the riches, inevitably knowing that college sports (especially football) were clearly trumping academics and becoming bigger than life. And it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to speculate that when millions of dollars are rolling in, there will be an inverse relationship with self reporting of crimes (why would anyone want to shoot themselves in the foot?).
What we saw this week instead was Emmert scold PSU as though the crimes that occurred took place in a vacuum, devoid of the bigger system that has watched amateur sports morph into professional sports in every sense of the word. As college athletic facilities have developed into multi-million dollar complexes, and head coaches have enjoyed $5 million dollar contracts, private jets, and country club memberships, do you think for a second the NCAA didn’t suspect that hey, maybe this is getting a little bigger than we ever imagined, and maybe this new “academic” paradigm might inevitably do us in down the road? With such a blatant mockery of higher education, the NCAA has helped create football factory schools that have morphed into rock star status at colleges across the country. And then, when a school messes up (ala PSU), Emmert says tsk-tsk and tells them they need a better academic/athletic balance?? No “we helped create this,” or “we should have worked harder to stop athletic programs from becoming so much more important than the very academic institutions they rent space from.” As I said in a previous column, when you have assistant football coaches and strength coaches making significantly more in salary than professors, deans, and other important college administrative personnel, something is seriously wrong.
So what to do with this mess you might ask? I have been asked that question a lot lately, and would like to expand on a few very real measures the NCAA can begin with immediately — that is, if they are serious about increasing the value of academics while concurrently minimizing the odds for future corruption and rule breaking.
Work with the NFL to create a Developmental League, similar to the NBA-D League that currently serves as a primer for talented players who might not yet be ready for the NBA. With this approach, high school players who are talented enough could bypass college (and lets be honest, there are plenty of players who only want the NFL and aren’t interested in college anyway) and immediately begin the professional sports careers. Coincidentally, this approach already exists in professional baseball, too. This new football D-League would also temper the over-the-top shenanigans college football coaches engage in while courting future star players, as they know that a couple 5-star guy will likely lead to bigger and fatter coach contracts (herein where a TON of the corruption starts).
Put caps on college football coaches salaries. This suggestion is purely from a common sense angle — where else does an employee of an organization make 5 times the amount of money as the president? Colleges, that’s where! Think about how nuts that is — in many of the colleges across the country the football coach not only crushes the salary of professors and all administrators, but even college presidents – and sometimes by as much as 5 times the amount! With caps in place, elite-level college coaches can then decide if they want to stick with college coaching or move onto the NFL (either way, college football will be fine).
New revenue distribution that allows for athletic earnings to be dispersed through the college, allowing for better scholarships, employee pay, and campus improvement (amongst other things). Instead of justifying the money stay in athletics because “that’s where it’s earned,” how about a little more sharing and dedication to improving the overall college, and not just lining the pockets of coaches with millions of more dollars?
As I mentioned earlier this week, if no changes are made and the NCAA only responds to problems in the future in a reactive, punitive manner, then I guarantee we will see more rule breaking and corruption in the future. The reality is that when there are big dollars, there will always be corruption. The good news is the NCAA and colleges can work together to improve upon this problem, and really, still “have their cake and eat it, too.” Colleges can scale back and re-emphasize academics, and still have school athletic pride and revenues (it just won’t always go back to funding coach salaries and athletic facilities). Sadly, its greed that has led to what we see in college sports today, and without strong leadership in place, we are likely only seeing the beginning of much bigger problems down the road.
www.drstankovich.com

Great thoughts, but the horse is way, way too far out of the barn to even look at something like this.
First of all, capping the salaries of anyone is a bad idea. YOu want your innovators, your "cream of the crop" to aspire to move up and get better. Our whole capatalistic system is based on this. Much of the coaches salaries are tied into bowl appearances, tournament wins, shoe contracts, tv and radio shows, etc. Again, you only have 100 or so D1 college football coaches, there are thousands and thousands of college professors (good and bad). And I'm sure the best in that profession are paid accordingly.
Second, these colleges RELY on the monies that these top level football and men's basketball programs bring in. The whole athletic department NEEDS this. You'll never see a scale back in numbers of games or tournaments.
The root of the problem is there was alot of people at Penn State who could have blown the whistle on Sandusky, including the administration, Paterno, local media, professors, heck even janitors and staff. YOu can't convence me that even just a few people suspected. Much like the guy at Ohio State that e-mailed Tressell about the tattoos and gold pant sales, no one wants to be that guy. That guy that brought the program down.
The NFL has a great system, why would they want a D-league? College football is the D-league.

[Snip]

Common Sense, on 27 July 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Great thoughts, but the horse is way, way too far out of the barn to even look at something like this.
First of all, capping the salaries of anyone is a bad idea. YOu want your innovators, your "cream of the crop" to aspire to move up and get better. Our whole capatalistic system is based on this. Much of the coaches salaries are tied into bowl appearances, tournament wins, shoe contracts, tv and radio shows, etc. Again, you only have 100 or so D1 college football coaches, there are thousands and thousands of college professors (good and bad). And I'm sure the best in that profession are paid accordingly.
Second, these colleges RELY on the monies that these top level football and men's basketball programs bring in. The whole athletic department NEEDS this. You'll never see a scale back in numbers of games or tournaments.
The root of the problem is there was alot of people at Penn State who could have blown the whistle on Sandusky, including the administration, Paterno, local media, professors, heck even janitors and staff. YOu can't convence me that even just a few people suspected. Much like the guy at Ohio State that e-mailed Tressell about the tattoos and gold pant sales, no one wants to be that guy. That guy that brought the program down.
The NFL has a great system, why would they want a D-league? College football is the D-league.

You may have answered your own question.
The more steps you have in an organization, the more coaches you'll have, the more competition you have.

Edited by Snip, 28 July 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Maltese Falcon]

UGAdawg, on 22 July 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Today Papa Joe's statue came down. Since Papa Joe and his wife gave money every year to the school, then shouldn't that be returned to the family? wouldn't it be dirty money now? I bet Penn State never thought about that! LOL

No the money should be used to pay the giant fine levied against PSU or be put toward some type of child abuse prevention program

[Bluetiger76]

Interesting that in a year and a half, the Penn State scandal has faded away. Society is quick to attack and quick to forget.