41 replies to this topic

[BlueJay]

OHSAA twitter - Board of Directors has approved expansion of football playoffs - adding a division and narrowing Division I. More details later today.

[flounder]

Great......just what we need...more state champions in football....lmao!!!!!

[Buckshot]

The schools haven't yet voted on this referendam have they.? I thought the voting was to take place between may 1 -15. Don't you mean the board of directors is placing these two items up for a vote?

[caldwell]

Need to add a "Private School" Division!!!

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, on 12 April 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

The schools haven't yet voted on this referendam have they.? I thought the voting was to take place between may 1 -15. Don't you mean the board of directors is placing these two items up for a vote?

I was informed there is no vote by the schools for this proposal. It is determined by the board at OHSAA. The May vote I referenced will be for the competitive balance proposal.

[osufan512]

caldwell, on 12 April 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Need to add a "Private School" Division!!!

That'll never happen

[dhsdawg06]

Between this and the competitive balance proposal, this was the lesser of 2 evils. Neither one was needed, but this is something I can at least live with. Especially since it gives every team in the state a slightly better chance of making the playoffs now. Very slight, but still better.

[Spartan87]

I'm glad they did it. The disparity in division 1 was astounding. Although seven divisions is going to make for some interesting logistics come playoff time, it only made sense that the largest schools in the state play "truly" like size schools.

[falconfan84]

How will computer points be affected?...will the new D1 be worth a greater amount of points (than the current D1), or will the new D7 be worth fewer points (than the current D6)?

This is silly to me.

We could save a huge amount of wasted time and money if we just skipped football altogether and bought every school in the state a championship trophy.

[Ron Mexico]

Quote

Especially since it gives every team in the state a slightly better chance of making the playoffs now. Very slight, but still better.

Uh, no. The new Division will qualify 32 out of 72 teams. All the other divisions will have a few more schools but the same number of qualifiers as last year. This helps the largest schools but doesn't do anything for the disparity in the lowest division (look at ratios, not total enrollment). Some of the schools in the new Division VII have almost 4 times the enrollment of the smallest schools. That is not the case in Division I.

[falconfan84]

Spartan87, on 12 April 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I'm glad they did it. The disparity in division 1 was astounding. Although seven divisions is going to make for some interesting logistics come playoff time, it only made sense that the largest schools in the state play "truly" like size schools.

The disparity in D6 is also astounding. You will have that. It's a bell curve, with the majority of schools falling nearer to the middle than to the far low or high enrollments. It could be said that it's even a worse problem for the smaller schools, since some can barely get enough kids to even form a team. D2 trough D5 schools are the groups with the least disparity.

So...with this set-up, we have 224 schools making the playoffs for those "coveted" SEVEN championships. Why not go for TEN?...the OHSAA is taking the top 10% of schools and placing them into the largest division...why not keep that percentage the rest of the way down? It's like the other 90% are somehow at a disadvantage now.

Also, once the largest schools are placed into the top division, that leaves A LOT of movement taking place among the other schools. If I get some time, I'll try to figure out how that will affect the numbers...but there will still be current D1's in the new D2, playing with the biggest current D2 schools. The smaller current D2 schools will then be mixed with the larger current D3 schools to make the new D3...and so on. This really only helps your team out if they are currently among the smaller portion of the division they are in. The larger teams will get bumped up a division to be the new "small guys".

I'm not sure there is a good solution to the "problem" on this. Maybe if we didn't have mega-sized schools, we wouldn't have some schools crying. If the governor had his way, we'd all be mega-sized and most Ohio teenagers wouldn't even get the opportunity to play high school sports. I hope to never see that day come.

[Greendogfriend]

This whole thing is getting positively ridiculous...there will always be some who think the divisions aren't "fair". Even if they win the championship, they wonder if they could have beaten the winner of a bigger division!

[dhsdawg06]

Ron Mexico, on 12 April 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Uh, no. The new Division will qualify 32 out of 72 teams. All the other divisions will have a few more schools but the same number of qualifiers as last year. This helps the largest schools but doesn't do anything for the disparity in the lowest division (look at ratios, not total enrollment). Some of the schools in the new Division VII have almost 4 times the enrollment of the smallest schools. That is not the case in Division I.

Uh, yes. Before every division had around 115 teams. Now D2-7 will have around 108. It's not really a noticeable difference, but 32 of 108 is slightly better odds than 32 of 115.

The only problem I have with this is that nearly half of division 1 will get in the playoffs. And the disparity that will still exist in D7.

Edited by dhsdawg06, 12 April 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[dhsdawg06]

BTW I did a rough estimate on where teams would end up and came up with this for area leagues. Obviously there are new numbers next year so a lot will change.

WBL:
D3- Wapak, Celina, Defiance, Elida, Shawnee
D4- St. Marys, Van Wert, Kenton, Bath
D5- O-G

NWC:
D5- Paulding
D6- Bluffton, Jefferson, Spencerville, Allen East, Grove, Crestview, Ada

BVC:
D5- Liberty-Benton
D6- Van Buren
D7- McComb, Arlington, Leipsic, Cory-Rawson, Hardin Northern, Arcadia, P-G, Vanlue

MAC:
D5- Versailles
D6- Coldwater, Anna, Parkway, Fort Recovery, St. Henry
D7- New Bremen, Minster, St. John's, Marion Local

NWOAL:
D4- Wauseon, Bryan
D5- Delta, Swanton, Archbold, Evergreen, Liberty Center
D6- Patrick Henry, Montpelier

GMC:
D6- Fairview, Wayne Trace, Tinora, Hicksville
D7- Ayersville, Edgerton, Antwerp, Holgate

LCC would be D6. Napoleon would be D4. Findlay still D1, Lima Senior still D2

Edited by dhsdawg06, 12 April 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[slice slice baby]

OHSAA Board Adopts Recommendation to Add Seventh Football Division
Division I Will Be Reduced to 72 Schools; Plan to Begin in 2013

COLUMBUS, Ohio – The Ohio High School Athletic Association will be adding a seventh tournament division in football beginning in 2013, Commissioner Daniel B. Ross has announced. The addition of a seventh division was approved by the OHSAA’s Board of Directors by a 6 to 3 vote during its regularly scheduled meeting on Thursday.

The plan will place the top 10 percent of schools based on enrollment in Division I, with the remaining 644 schools divided evenly among the next six divisions. This will leave 72 schools in Division I with the other six divisions averaging approximately 108 schools. Each of the seven divisions will continue to qualify 32 teams to the tournament. Currently, the six OHSAA football divisions are comprised of an average of 120 schools per division.

The plan for adopting an additional division was in response to a concern by some OHSAA member schools about the enrollment disparity that exists in Division I, where the current range is 494 males at the lower end of the division to 1,164 at the top. Based on current enrollment data, the lower end of Division I would increase to 600 males. Committee meetings were held to address the issue and the recommendation to add a seventh division came from the committee.

“Adding a seventh division not only helps address the enrollment disparity in Division I, but it also will create 32 more tournament opportunities for student-athletes, their schools and their communities, many of which have never or rarely experienced the playoffs,” Ross said. “The committee members believe that this is an issue unique to football, especially since not all schools qualify for the OHSAA football tournament.”

A separate committee, comprised of OHSAA Board and staff members, school administrators and officers of the Ohio High School Football Coaches Association, will be formed to finalize the details of this plan. Among the details to be determined: adjustments to the Harbin Computer Ratings with the addition of another division; regional breakdowns and assignments for Division I, and dates in which specific divisions will play their tournament contests, including logistics of an additional state tournament contest.

Approval of an “athletic count” formula, which is included within a competitive balance proposal that OHSAA member school principals will vote on during the annual referendum process that will occur between May 1 and 15, would also be factored in before placing schools into their respective tournament divisions.

The next two-year cycle for reassigning schools to tournament divisions begins in the fall of 2013. Based on current enrollment figures, a sample of the football tournament divisional enrollment ranges when adding a seventh division would be (again, keeping in mind that this will change before the 2013 season): Division I – 600 to 1,164; Division II – 410 to 599; Division III – 288 to 409; Division IV – 216 to 287; Division V – 159 to 215; Division VI – 114 to 158, and Division VII – 30 to 111. The current football tournament divisional enrollment ranges, which run through through 2012, are: Division I – 494 to 1,164; Division II – 327 to 493; Division III – 243 to 326; Division IV – 172 to 242; Division V – 120 to 171, and Division VI – 30 to 119.

This is the first time the OHSAA has expanded the number of football tournament divisions since 1994, when a sixth division was added. Five years later, the number of tournament qualifiers in each division expanded from 16 to 32. When the tournament first began in 1972, there were three football tournament divisions, and expansion to five divisions occurred in 1980.

[Bruno]

The true disparity was truly in D6 if you think about it as a ratio. In D6 it was 4-1. For every boy Vanlue had the high end school had 4. In D1 it was 2.3-1, where's the disparity? I'm sorry if you have 494 boys in the 3 grade levels and you have a rough time fielding a successful team once in awhile, look at what your doing wrong first.

[NoSoup4U]

Why wouldn't they take 10% off the top and 10% off the bottom and then split the other four equally? I can tell you why, gate money. Getting more larger schools to the playoffs..........more gate.

[jawbreaker]

In NW Ohio only LSH benefits from this.

[flounder]

caldwell, on 12 April 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Need to add a "Private School" Division!!!

osufan512, on 12 April 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

That'll never happen

That should never happen........toughen up or take your ball home with you!!!!!!

[flounder]

NoSoup4U, on 13 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Why wouldn't they take 10% off the top and 10% off the bottom and then split the other four equally? I can tell you why, gate money. Getting more larger schools to the playoffs..........more gate.

This theory would certainly help teams like Shadyside....lol....who make the playoffs with very good won/loss records only to be embarrassed in the state finals........and then to have the audacity to put the blame not on themselves for poor preparation, but on the 'privates'.....life is easy when no accountability is held......pretty much sums up what is happening in America!!!!!!!!

I will never be able to figure out the OHSAA.....we have more teams in basketball then football......yet, we have less divisions....I know it is all about the 'bucks', but football is so watered down right now, that many are losing interest.....I mean.....and now the winners in Division 7.......seriously!!!!