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Girls Basketball Numbers...what is going on and how can we change it?


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#1 Fall Ball

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 10:38 AM

Why Two Quarters For JV Girls Basketball? January 15, 2017 statelinesportsnetwork



This past season numerous girls JV basketball games have been cut down to two quarters in length and some have even been cancelled. Several Mercer County girls basketball coaches gave us answers to our questions on why this is taking place. Ft. Recovery one of the top girls basketball programs in the county, now they will only play 2 quarter JV games for rest of the season. The Indians only have 13 healthy roster players and when one player broke her hand the choice was made to play only 2 quarters of JV. There has been times when no JV game was played before the varsity game. Numbers for the future could be a problem as well, the Indians do not have freshmen team this season, in the lower grades the 7th grade has thirteen players and the 8th grade has just nine players.

Ft. Recovery Head Coach Brian Patch sees numerous issues causing the current situation:
Numerous reasons. Season too long compared to volleyball, sport requires too much running versus volleyball, club volleyball, kids are getting lazy and entitled compared to the past, parents aren’t as supportive as they used to be to push their kids, everyone wants to be the star and if they can’t start or play a lot then they won’t play, in basketball you have to be good at multiple things to be a good player versus volleyball you can play half the game being just good at one thing such as digging a ball, in basketball you have to work hard during the game because of the sport. CYO still plays basketball mess around and drinking is involved- a major problem in Mercer County.
Patch sees this being an issue for the future:
I see this as being a major problem and its occurring everywhere. Numbers are dropping. Example last year we won the 6th most games in our program history which has included 3 state appearances. We had 5 kids quit off our jv and varsity team. Those kids played for a winning program, played a lot of minutes as we only had 13 kids last year and played a full JV schedule and games. Our administration asked them if coaches were the problem and they said no we love them. This is a huge problem and any thing you can do to write about it to address it with OHSAA, parents, school personnel would be appreciated by all coaches. I lost a paid varsity assistant because our numerous dropped below 24 kids. In 9 games we have not played a team with 24 kids. Yet my coach puts in the same amount hours and shows up to help run our youth programs to build numbers for our future. I have very strong feelings on this topic and love to see it get addressed.
Marion Local, another very successful program, has played a few JV games for 2 quarters due to opponents having low roster numbers.
Looking at the Flyers overall program they will play 6 to 7 freshman games and numbers on the 7th and 8th grade teams are both at eleven.
Head Coach Barb Streib talks about the situation:
Numbers seem to be low in a lot of schools. Kids are just different these days and either focus on one sport or don’t want to put the time in.
Success usually seems to help, trying to find a balance between working hard and pushing them while also making it fun can be a challenge.
At Parkway they have only played one JV game where the Panthers requested to play only 2 quarters, this was due to four girls being out (3 due to injury) which left only 12 healthy players. Three JV games opponents have requested to play 2 quarters of JV, one school did not have a JV team.
First year Panther Head Coach Linda Hawk:
I’m hoping I don’t have to do this again due to girls being out due to injury.
Hawk went on to talk about the program down the road:
Depending if all 8th graders play next year, we may have a freshman team. Early estimates are 23 girls. This could change by the time next season starts.
Only losing one senior this year and we have a descent size 8th grade class coming up. At this point, I don’t have concerns that we may not be able to field a JV team.
Celina Head Coach Steve Bader:
We have a JV team but our numbers are down. With only 15 girls in the varsity and JV program and no freshman team because they are playing JV. We have to play 2 quarter JV games because of injury and sickness. Club volleyball and club soccer have killed basketball for girls. AAU is about making money no matter what sport you play. No one wants to work on fundamentals and parents are getting caught up with AAU and spending money. Parents want to coach their kids and ruin it for other kids as well. Parents try to highlight their kid and focus on Major DI scholarships. No one wants to coach anymore because parents make it miserable for coaches to coach. I do not have an answer to get this matter fixed. I see why Celina basketball is a girl’s third sport of choice. Volleyball and soccer have been good here for past 5 to 8 years, so as a player they are going to go to the winning programs.
In November of 2014 in an OHSAA newsletter ‘Rebounders Report’ on 2 Quarter games in basketball:
There is a general perceived trend of lower numbers in high school basketball, especially on the girls’ side. Many inquire about playing “2 Quarter JV Games”. But…rules require a game to be how long? 4 quarters of course. That means, a game MUST be 4 quarters in length. So, no 2 quarter games could be permitted by NFHS Playing Rules. But before I close this section….there is also an NFHS Rule that says “by mutual agreement of coaches and officials, a game may end at any time”.
The situation is something that school administration, coaches, parents and student-athletes need to keep an eye on for the future. The atmosphere is no longer that of the 1950’s where you played for the pride of the school and the community. The focus in 2017, especially at the National level, has changed to what is best for the individual and not the team concept.

Edited by Fall Ball, 20 January 2017 - 08:28 AM.



#2 von

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:16 PM

View PostFall Ball, on 19 January 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

Why Two Quarters For JV Girls Basketball? January 15, 2017 statelinesportsnetwork
Posted Image
Celina JV Basketball Huddle – Thanks to Snap In Time Photography

This past season numerous girls JV basketball games have been cut down to two quarters in length and some have even been cancelled. Several Mercer County girls basketball coaches gave us answers to our questions on why this is taking place. Ft. Recovery one of the top girls basketball programs in the county, now they will only play 2 quarter JV games for rest of the season. The Indians only have 13 healthy roster players and when one player broke her hand the choice was made to play only 2 quarters of JV. There has been times when no JV game was played before the varsity game. Numbers for the future could be a problem as well, the Indians do not have freshmen team this season, in the lower grades the 7th grade has thirteen players and the 8th grade has just nine players.

Ft. Recovery Head Coach Brian Patch sees numerous issues causing the current situation:
Numerous reasons. Season too long compared to volleyball, sport requires too much running versus volleyball, club volleyball, kids are getting lazy and entitled compared to the past, parents aren’t as supportive as they used to be to push their kids, everyone wants to be the star and if they can’t start or play a lot then they won’t play, in basketball you have to be good at multiple things to be a good player versus volleyball you can play half the game being just good at one thing such as digging a ball, in basketball you have to work hard during the game because of the sport. CYO still plays basketball mess around and drinking is involved- a major problem in Mercer County.
Patch sees this being an issue for the future:
I see this as being a major problem and its occurring everywhere. Numbers are dropping. Example last year we won the 6th most games in our program history which has included 3 state appearances. We had 5 kids quit off our jv and varsity team. Those kids played for a winning program, played a lot of minutes as we only had 13 kids last year and played a full JV schedule and games. Our administration asked them if coaches were the problem and they said no we love them. This is a huge problem and any thing you can do to write about it to address it with OHSAA, parents, school personnel would be appreciated by all coaches. I lost a paid varsity assistant because our numerous dropped below 24 kids. In 9 games we have not played a team with 24 kids. Yet my coach puts in the same amount hours and shows up to help run our youth programs to build numbers for our future. I have very strong feelings on this topic and love to see it get addressed.
Marion Local, another very successful program, has played a few JV games for 2 quarters due to opponents having low roster numbers.
Looking at the Flyers overall program they will play 6 to 7 freshman games and numbers on the 7th and 8th grade teams are both at eleven.
Head Coach Barb Streib talks about the situation:
Numbers seem to be low in a lot of schools. Kids are just different these days and either focus on one sport or don’t want to put the time in.
Success usually seems to help, trying to find a balance between working hard and pushing them while also making it fun can be a challenge.
At Parkway they have only played one JV game where the Panthers requested to play only 2 quarters, this was due to four girls being out (3 due to injury) which left only 12 healthy players. Three JV games opponents have requested to play 2 quarters of JV, one school did not have a JV team.
First year Panther Head Coach Linda Hawk:
I’m hoping I don’t have to do this again due to girls being out due to injury.
Hawk went on to talk about the program down the road:
Depending if all 8th graders play next year, we may have a freshman team. Early estimates are 23 girls. This could change by the time next season starts.
Only losing one senior this year and we have a descent size 8th grade class coming up. At this point, I don’t have concerns that we may not be able to field a JV team.
Celina Head Coach Steve Bader:
We have a JV team but our numbers are down. With only 15 girls in the varsity and JV program and no freshman team because they are playing JV. We have to play 2 quarter JV games because of injury and sickness. Club volleyball and club soccer have killed basketball for girls. AAU is about making money no matter what sport you play. No one wants to work on fundamentals and parents are getting caught up with AAU and spending money. Parents want to coach their kids and ruin it for other kids as well. Parents try to highlight their kid and focus on Major DI scholarships. No one wants to coach anymore because parents make it miserable for coaches to coach. I do not have an answer to get this matter fixed. I see why Celina basketball is a girl’s third sport of choice. Volleyball and soccer have been good here for past 5 to 8 years, so as a player they are going to go to the winning programs.
In November of 2014 in an OHSAA newsletter ‘Rebounders Report’ on 2 Quarter games in basketball:
There is a general perceived trend of lower numbers in high school basketball, especially on the girls’ side. Many inquire about playing “2 Quarter JV Games”. But…rules require a game to be how long? 4 quarters of course. That means, a game MUST be 4 quarters in length. So, no 2 quarter games could be permitted by NFHS Playing Rules. But before I close this section….there is also an NFHS Rule that says “by mutual agreement of coaches and officials, a game may end at any time”.
The situation is something that school administration, coaches, parents and student-athletes need to keep an eye on for the future. The atmosphere is no longer that of the 1950’s where you played for the pride of the school and the community. The focus in 2017, especially at the National level, has changed to what is best for the individual and not the team concept.



#3 von

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:20 PM

View Postvon, on 19 January 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:


Let 8th graders play on the JV, solves the whole problem, or play the 8th grade game right before the varsity game. It is only going to get worse, because of VB and Soccer. Kids do not want to play 2-3 sports per season anymore, sad. Times are a changing to quote Bob Dylan...

#4 Fall Ball

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:36 PM

It seems no program is immune to the problem with low numbers. Even perennial powers like Ottoville and Bath are struggling to field adequate high school numbers. Are there any area varsity girls coaches working with their school's youth/MS programs to try to figure out why so many girls are leaving basketball by the time they get to middle/high school?

#5 limajock2

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 09:44 PM

Been involved with Ohio High School sports in many capacities for 40+ years. There is no way to reverse this trend. AAU is the precursor for club sports taking over all sports in the U.S. Sad to say, but I'd bet the house on it.

#6 Hagen

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:11 AM

View PostFall Ball, on 19 January 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

It seems no program is immune to the problem with low numbers. Even perennial powers like Ottoville and Bath are struggling to field adequate high school numbers. Are there any area varsity girls coaches working with their school's youth/MS programs to try to figure out why so many girls are leaving basketball by the time they get to middle/high school?
Part of the problem is too many people getting involved at the elementary level. Parents treat their local area elementary league as if it's the state title. Previous high school super dads coaching there and making a mockery of the system by wanting wins > development at this level. Instead of playing 7th-12th, kids are now playing 3rd-8th. This is an all-sports problem, not just basketball. Keep elementary fun and developmental to where kids don't get burnt out by high school.

#7 Fall Ball

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:24 AM

It's definitely a sad trend...I guess I find it surprising that more high school coaches aren't trying to find ways to try to address the huge drop-off that they are experiencing. I don't know that there is any solution or right way to address it. As a parent of three girls and boys from 4th-7th grade, I see that there is certainly a push from almost every sport to participate in activities all year round related to that sport. I just wonder if varsity coaches got involved and shared some perspective/philosophy concerning burnout, etc. if more parents would listen and back off over-involving their kids? It's disturbing to me how many people are so interested in their child being the "best athlete" in 5th, 6th, 7th grade rather than backing off a bit and finding a balance to keep their student/athlete involved and thriving through high school.

#8 veteranlefty

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 01:36 PM

I think club volleyball is the biggest culprit. Girls at all skill levels can play on a team for a price and many girls are made to feel that if they do not play club in the winter/spring they are falling behind the others. Some play basketball for their school and club vball at same time but that is pretty demanding. My kids go to a small high school and there are girls quitting basketball to play club vball with desires of playing vball in college. Most of these girls are not college caliber and are giving up what could be a nice high school experience. Sport specialization is another factor. Until high school and college coaches come out and strongly say they encourage kids to play multiple sports, you will see an increase in the one sport athlete. This really hurts the smaller school systems where they need all the numbers they can get, especially when it comes to the better athletes. If you ask most college coaches, they will tell you they want their future players to "compete" as much as possible in high school in all sports, not just their future college sport. Experiences in true competition in real games with a crowd and referees is better than lifting weights and running by yourself. Dealing with pressure, teammates, coaches, referee decisions and head to head combat with other athletes carries over from sport to sport.

#9 pokercat

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 02:16 PM

Its hard to be good at basketball....many skills needed to be any good at all.. Fort Recovery coach nailed it...Volleyball you can specialize and still play half of the game..Soccer,you get to play 11 girls at a time..(you can hide weak players)..Basketball, no hiding and only 5 players on the court... This trend will definitely continue

#10 Bobby

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:24 PM

There is doubt there are a lot of reasons for this. Too many coaches want kids to live, eat and sleep THEIR sport 24/7, 365. Also AAU. Kids have lots of other options. And maybe basketball just isn't fun anymore. I know when I watch games live or on tv some of those games sure don't look like much fun.

Maybe we need to ask programs with good numbers. We played Minster a couple weeks ago with 25 9-12. What are they doing right?

#11 Coach

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 05:03 PM

Everything that was said above I agree with. I do think parents are the worst. How can a Coach like Nann Stechschulte retire after taking her team to the Regional finals and lead most of the way, and lose the eventual State Champions. Basically had the whole team coming back. No doubt it was parents! Next is AAU.

The only thing that hasn't been addressed has been practice. I think coaches try to put in too much and practice way to long after the first 5 games of the season. Go back to basics and work hard but put a little fun into the sport at practice. The coach should know his team better than anyone else so read the situation. Are your girls beating the door down to get out of practice or are they beating the door down to get in. That alone will tell you who is having a successful season.

#12 Bobby

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 05:04 PM

Another view: http://limaohio.com/...g-rosters-tough

#13 Rocketman

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 09:42 PM

Agree on all points listed above................so sad
home to the "Flounder & Rocketman's" Girls HS rankings

#14 waterloowonder

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:30 AM

Interesting and sad topic. Virtually all the reasons stated contribute to the issue. It is going to be very hard to turn around. These are very successful programs that are having numbers problems. All sports seem to be year round these days. Football is certainly year round with weight lifting, 7 on 7's, etc., but the most of the MAC schools seem to have great participation rates. Even Holgate, who has had a very successful girl's program, is having numbers problems. Last year their 8th grade team with 9 players won the GMC and this year only 1 girl on that team went out. The snowflake effect we are seeing on the national political scene apparently is starting at a young age.

#15 Hagen

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:11 AM

View Postveteranlefty, on 20 January 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

I think club volleyball is the biggest culprit. Girls at all skill levels can play on a team for a price and many girls are made to feel that if they do not play club in the winter/spring they are falling behind the others. Some play basketball for their school and club vball at same time but that is pretty demanding. My kids go to a small high school and there are girls quitting basketball to play club vball with desires of playing vball in college. Most of these girls are not college caliber and are giving up what could be a nice high school experience. ...
Wait, you mean playing a club sport doesn't ensure a Division 1 scholarship? :sarcasm:

View Postwaterloowonder, on 23 January 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

The snowflake effect we are seeing ...
I stand by that those parents are ruining youth sports, not the youth themselves. They kids been taught by someone & often they're clueless about reality (parents) or feeding a line of BS (coaches who care only about their sport and winning percentage & not the kids themselves). It's a broken cycle currently & I don't see it getting better in the near future.

Edited by Hagen, 23 January 2017 - 09:13 AM.


#16 limajock2

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:52 PM

View PostFall Ball, on 20 January 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

It's definitely a sad trend...I guess I find it surprising that more high school coaches aren't trying to find ways to try to address the huge drop-off that they are experiencing. I don't know that there is any solution or right way to address it. As a parent of three girls and boys from 4th-7th grade, I see that there is certainly a push from almost every sport to participate in activities all year round related to that sport. I just wonder if varsity coaches got involved and shared some perspective/philosophy concerning burnout, etc. if more parents would listen and back off over-involving their kids? It's disturbing to me how many people are so interested in their child being the "best athlete" in 5th, 6th, 7th grade rather than backing off a bit and finding a balance to keep their student/athlete involved and thriving through high school.

If you really feel this way, move to a MAC league school. Only hope you have!!!

#17 paperboy

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:04 PM

I think a lot of girls lose interest when they don't see the court much in junior high. Many of the successful MAC football programs don't give a whit about their junior high records - they play everyone just to get them exposed to the program. I've seen a fair amount of junior high basketball coaches coaching for themselves over the development of the players. They'll play their top 7 kids and leave the rest on the bench unless it's garbage time.

#18 KarCuke

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 04:16 PM

Girls start playing basketball so they can do something with their dads. Later they start playing volleyball because their dads don't know anything about volleyball.

#19 Common Sense

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 04:59 PM

Lots of factors, club volleyball, soccer, softball, indoor track (yes, this is real)...bottom line, we've taken the focus away from the activity and put it on the success. Girls on average are probably just as active as they were 40 years ago, it's just in different activities. Show choir, band, dance, some are working, etc. Girls or social. The activity is the conduit to the activity. Someone mentioned earlier that basketball takes alot of skills. That is very true, this isn't a slight to the other sports, but basketball takes more fine motor skills than soccer and volleyball. Plus many girls don't like the contact of basketball.

Remedy, you need a dynamic, energetic coach and parents who encourage their girls to play basketball. Parents don't encourage girls to play, they discourage in some instances. Boys don't need the nudge, girls do. You need to make it fun and inclusive. Some local programs, Liberty Benton, Arlington, Leipsic, have no problem with keeping kids involved.

#20 flounder

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:07 PM

View PostKarCuke, on 12 February 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Girls start playing basketball so they can do something with their dads. Later they start playing volleyball because their dads don't know anything about volleyball.

LMAO.....this has got to be a kid.....I look forward to many more posts from you!!!!!!!!!!!!







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