50 replies to this topic

[Kennedy]

I thought he looked good. Albeit against 2nd stringers, but he looked solid. My biggest take away from his performance is his arm. I think, because of his small frame, people assume he lacks NFL arm strength. If you watched him Saturday night that's clearly not the case. A couple of those throws were lasers. Also it seems someone has shown him the importance of sliding. All good things.
At the rate he's progressing it'll be very hard for the coaching staff to keep him on the bench week 1. That being said, browns fans have seen this scenario before. They can't set him up to fail, not this time. I still believe Hoyer is the beat option. I know alot of fans disagree with me, but if the coaches start taking advice from the bleachers it won't be long before they're sitting in them. Stay the course, unless Hoyer is a complete disaster you have to ride it out for at least a season.

[Bluetiger76]

Kennedy, on 12 August 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

because of his small frame, people assume he lacks NFL arm strength. If you watched him Saturday night that's clearly not the case. A couple of those throws were lasers.

I agree Kennedy. Some folks dwell on his height. Just to list a few small NFL QB's: Drew Brees, Michael Vick and Pat White (I'm a WVU fan) are all the same height as Manziel (6' 0")

[fortfan]

Wonder who the media is rooting for? (I don't get why it matters so much to them-but it seems to)

Yesterday at training camp, Hoyer's first pass was intercepted (Austin slipped-but that wasn't important). 8 media tweeted that Hoyer's first pass was intercepted.

Manziel fumbled his first snap-1 media tweeted about it.

[Kennedy]

It has to be nerve racking being either one of those guys right now.
they both know Johnny is the plan long term. It has to be hard knowing you're replacement is already in the locker room. On the other side, knowing you have been coined"the guy" and having to sit on the bench can't be easy.
they're walking a fine line right now. Competition is most always healthy, but the worst possible scenario is if any sort of rift forms between players and/or coaches. Ala chud and Greg Little.

Edited by Kennedy, 12 August 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[gamekeeper]

Lasers? I would hope he can throw a 15 yard pass fairly hard, Most Qb's of that caliber can do that. But let's see his Arm strength when he does it in Cleveland when it is windy, not in Detroit in a Dome. It's not Nov. in Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincy, Cleveland.
Height - - Drew Breese may be the same height but not body type. Manziel has longer legs, and less upper body. Breese has more upper body to him, so he is thicker.
Manziel took off on the 4th and 1 play and does what he has always done run. Great he looked exciting!! BUT there was a running back wide open past the first down marker that he should have thrown the ball to. He does not have the 4.3 speed that vick had, and I think to bank the future of the Browns on a QB, that will not likely make it through a complete season on a regular basis seems counter productive when the browns have been trying to get that position right for the last 20 years. Look at the QB's that have lasted in that division. Flacko, Rothlesbuger, even Dalton is thicker than Manziel.

But hey everybody loves the back yard football player, give him the ball and look at him go. I just can't believe the Browns put all their eggs, after all this time into a player that will always be a gimic to sell tickets. For every big play he makes he will cost you as many.

If I am Hoyer, I hope to look really good, and then ask to be traded. Because the press and lots of fans have already annointed Manziel the starter. So everything Hoyer does, looks worse, than what manziel does. The Hoyer name doesn't sell tickets, and I cannot even imagine how he is feeling when all he has done is do everything to help cleveland win, and last year we were all sad he went down. And this season he is healthy and no one wants him to start....

I still say Hoyer Should be the starter, with that running game, and the defense that Cleveland has, He will manage the game really well, and I think he will make better decisions with the football. He has backed up BRady, so He understands the league.

[Kennedy]

Manziel

gamekeeper, on 12 August 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Lasers? I would hope he can throw a 15 yard pass fairly hard, Most Qb's of that caliber can do that. But let's see his Arm strength when he does it in Cleveland when it is windy, not in Detroit in a Dome. It's not Nov. in Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincy, Cleveland.
Height - - Drew Breese may be the same height but not body type. Manziel has longer legs, and less upper body. Breese has more upper body to him, so he is thicker.
Manziel took off on the 4th and 1 play and does what he has always done run. Great he looked exciting!! BUT there was a running back wide open past the first down marker that he should have thrown the ball to. He does not have the 4.3 speed that vick had, and I think to bank the future of the Browns on a QB, that will not likely make it through a complete season on a regular basis seems counter productive when the browns have been trying to get that position right for the last 20 years. Look at the QB's that have lasted in that division. Flacko, Rothlesbuger, even Dalton is thicker than Manziel.

But hey everybody loves the back yard football player, give him the ball and look at him go. I just can't believe the Browns put all their eggs, after all this time into a player that will always be a gimic to sell tickets. For every big play he makes he will cost you as many.

If I am Hoyer, I hope to look really good, and then ask to be traded. Because the press and lots of fans have already annointed Manziel the starter. So everything Hoyer does, looks worse, than what manziel does. The Hoyer name doesn't sell tickets, and I cannot even imagine how he is feeling when all he has done is do everything to help cleveland win, and last year we were all sad he went down. And this season he is healthy and no one wants him to start....

I still say Hoyer Should be the starter, with that running game, and the defense that Cleveland has, He will manage the game really well, and I think he will make better decisions with the football. He has backed up BRady, so He understands the league.

I call them Lasers, you call them great throws. What's the difference?

I'll bet half of the 30 million people that tuned in to watch that game were hoping to see him fall on his face. I'm assuming you're included. But the fact is, he didn't. Did he light the world on fire? No, but with the exception of one every throw he made was a good NFL throw. And before you tell me it was against 2nd string, we know that. He also had a 2nd team o line and 2nd team recievers.

I know it kills some people that he actually played well, but you can't forget that the "backyard" football player destroyed the SEC for 2 straight seasons. Sure he's only played 1 NFL game but burying someone just because you don't like him is foolish. If they wanted a gimmick to sell jerseys they had every opportunity to sign Tebow.

[gamekeeper]

LSU. LSU has put alot of Defensive backs into the NFL, and he did not destroy, LSU.

I don't consider the play against ALabama where he was scrambling around in the back field and heaved up a pass down into triple coverage to And Mike evans just out jumped the D b's to save him. The announcers went nuts. That is what i am talking about, that pass does not get completed in the NFL. Db's would have knocked or intercepted that heave, and He didn't use his Check down into the play, and could have picked up the first down. It was on the Gruden brakedown. that is why I burying him. ALSO he cannot hold up physically running. NO running QB has. AND Cleveland has waited so long to get a QB to go with one who has a small frame for NFL standards and play in COLD weather with hard Fields, seems just asking for trouble with durability.

He has shown no history of good smart decision making. His history is creatativity and adlib. So if he suddenly becomes a responsible QB, then he isn't Johnny Football, and I don't see him not being johnny football.

It isn't even anything to do with his off field antics. He just makes the plays harder than they have to be, and well it worked in College, but in the NFL, everyone has LSU type Db's and not Just one. Time will tell, but true tell won't be til he faces his first Cleveland Winter.

[Kennedy]

Out of 13 SEC defensive players drafted in the first round in the past 2 years guess how many were db's from LSU?
1

So you're point now is what? Alabama is all hype too? I agree the SEC is overrated to an extent, but you can't argue with facts. SEC defenses are loaded with NFL talent and Johnny Manziel succeeded against the cream of the crop.

[gamekeeper]

No I agree the SEC defense (except for A&M) are really good Defenses! I am saying he didn't torch LSU. And even though they only had one go in the NFL. They have physical DB's, and again MANZIELS stats against LSU wasn't he torched them.

LSU he was 16/41 for 224 yards, 1 TD and 2 INT. Not a Torch Missouri Lost. He threw 24/35 for only 195 Yards, and 1 TD. Not a torch Bama the game that people went gaga over.

BAMA is up 35 - 14 was playing into at the 12:00 min. Mark of the 3rd Quarter, A&M was not stopping the running game of BAMA, and BAMA wasn't playing man to man defense, and pressuring Manziel because they were up.

I am saying he exceeded by making a living out doing things I do not want My NFL QB doing and that is shooting from his hip. I want my QB to be the smart, More than Athletic. Give me a superbowl QB in the last 10 years, Who wasn't smart. I don't look at Manziel and think Superbowl. I look at Andrew Luck, and say Superbowl caliber QB. I look at Manziel and see VICK in cold weather, and sorry that is exciting, but it isn't the superbowl. it is 8 - 8 9-7 and possibly 10-6 once in awhile. And that's if you can keep a good back up on the Bench, because I don't see him make it through every season healthy if he continues, doing what has made him famous and try to run around and try to make plays. It sets up for alot more hits. THE NFL has lots of fast D players, not just a few Like the college ranks.
By the way VICK, RGIII are faster, than Manziel.

All I am saying He didn't put up outstanding numbers against the cream of the SEC D, only the lesser teams, and the NFL has better defenses than all the SEC teams.

[gamekeeper]

Footnote, Weeden was 13-17 and one 1 TD against san diego's starters for the Cowboys. Curious to see how he develops with Dallas. And not wanting him back. But it would just be Clevelands luck, that he turns into a decent QB after he leaves..

[Kennedy]

He had 5td games against Auburn, Alabama and Missouri. In the 2 years he was at a&m there's 3 SEC Championship games, 2 BCS championship games and 1 National Championship between just those schools.... That he torched for 5 scores in one game. Wait, did I already say that?

He torched the best the SEC had to offer.

[Kennedy]

gamekeeper, on 14 August 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Footnote, Weeden was 13-17 and one 1 TD against san diego's starters for the Cowboys. Curious to see how he develops with Dallas. And not wanting him back. But it would just be Clevelands luck, that he turns into a decent QB after he leaves..

remember last year when weeden was voted the preseason MVP by the NFL tonight crew? He lit it up.

[gamekeeper]

He had 4 TD against Auburn, who's weakness was there secondary. Everyone was torching them passing. He also threw 2
INT. that game that cost them the game. And I just gave you the stats for MISSOURI it wasn't five. He threw the ball 35 times complete 24 of the passes and got a whoping 195 yards. AND LOST. I don't care what the other schools did in their league, it isn't relavant what is that the games he played them. He didn't win an SEC championship did he.
So you proved my point he has one good game, on national TV, and he suddenly is the second coming. By the way The 5 TD game he threw 2 INT.

Well we shall see tonight. He is supposed to get time with starters.

[Kennedy]

Wrong again.

Auburn 4 passing 1 running = 5 touchdowns

Alabama- 5 throwing = 5 touchdowns

Duke- 4 throwing 1 running = 5 touchdowns

Auburn Again- 2 throwing 3 running = 5 touchdowns

Missouri - 3 passing 2 running = 5 touchdowns

Oklahoma- 2 throwing 2 running = 4 touchdowns

Still think he only had 1 good game against 1 good team?
Let me guess, running td's are irrelevant?
Are you sure I proved your point?

9989 yds of offense and 93 touchdowns in 2 seasons In the SEC!

Edited by Kennedy, 18 August 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[gamekeeper]

YES i do believe rushing are irrelevant. He cannot run for 759 yards, or 1410 yards a year in the NFL and survive. College does it because they can replace their QB, every year if they want. I am happy for him, running all over in college yeah go johnny go. I don't want the QB to be the running back too.

Is my understanding that you firmly believe he is durable enough to rush for those kind of yards, scramble around in the back field to extend plays, and make it through entire seasons for 8 - 10 years.

[Kennedy]

I never said that. I don't firmly believe anything other than he destroyed the SEC. Which you apparently firmly believe he didn't.

I give you facts based on stats and production, I'm still trying to understand why you're the only person alive convinced he was bad in college.
He probably paid off the heisman voters right? That's an irrelevant accomplishment too right? And if your quarterback scores a touchdown on the ground, even though it goes on the scoreboard, that also is irrelevant?

Edited by Kennedy, 18 August 2014 - 09:29 PM.

[Kennedy]

Last night was awful. Neither guy looked remotely capable of leading that team. I almost turned it off midway through the 2nd qtr. Not that it would have made a difference, but the alternating series philosophy needs to be canned immediately. Not only did it hurt the qb's , but how are you receiver's and backs supposed to get in sync with a different qb every other possession?

That being said after last night the qb position is no more solidified than the day weeden was cut.

pure garbage.

[gamekeeper]

I didnt' say he was bad in college. I argue his poor decision making led to alot of the spectacular plays he made, and in the NFL you don't have that time or luxioury to hold to the ball and miss routes. If you watch the game last night they showed the play where he dropped back against bama, and then rolled almost lost the ball and threw it into the end zone for a TD. Everyone went nuts. Then they showed where the open receiver who when the play first started where he was supposed to go was wide open for a slant that would resulted in a first down , and he decided to hold onto the ball longer to try to wait for a receiver to get open in End zone. That is my problem. It's not that he was bad. HE made lots of poor decisions. Same game the Hail merry pass! that isn't a good decision.

Every 5 TD game you spoke of and you were right all of those games, but he had 2 int, in them as well. Some in the Red Zone. Poor judgement. Flipping the Washington's Bench off on National TV, poor judgement. Going to a Hotel, and supposedly signing autographs for free for 4 hours, poor judgement. Now I don't care if he got paid for it or not. More power to him. But don't put your self in a situation where you really think people believe you were doing it for nothing.

That's my whole issue with him. He is going to do some really nice things, and then he is going to cost you games. And when they finally take the training wheels off, and he can't do what he did in college, he will get frustrated and Want out of Cleveland. Because let's face it. Cleveland isn't a glitter town, and he is a glitter man. So it will be that Cleveland isn't good, and I don't see him handling losing well, at all.

Edited by gamekeeper, 20 August 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[gamekeeper]

AND yes, I couldn't stomach the two QB's switching on and off. I thought it hurt both QB's. And not sure how you are going to be ready for WEek one if you keep switching like that..IT was awful to watch.
He should just start HOYER and BE done with it. Give Manziel at least more time to read defenses, or just make him the starter and let the show begin. Because either way this two QB thing is not helping the cause.

[gamekeeper]

Finally the Browns announce their Starter. What should have been done before last week. Now leave Hoyer alone for at least the first 6 games, and see what happens. The Browns were not going to probably win the division this season anyway, this way you give HOyer legit chance to prove himself without looking over his shoulder every play.