67 replies to this topic

[WONBulldog]

Do you then suggest the elimination of college athletics or continue to make it illegal for a college athlete to have money while their sport is in season? They are not a typical student and you can not treat them as such. It is a business and how great a business is it that you don't have to pay 2/3's of the work force! If you take athletics away, most of those scholarships go away as well as alumni won't be so generous with their donations. Thus, you are not taking scholarships away from good students. Why do you not want to protect these students?

Many people have heard of Terrelle Pryor but can you name any valedictorian coming into Ohio State or who is the top student nationally? Somehow, we have heard of this football player and not the best student coming to Ohio State? Why do you think that is? Right now you can go to a site and see every football player coming in but there is no site that lists each student coming. It is called marketing. Scouting companies help college football by making the fanatic of a school familiar with freshmen who have not taken 1 college class when games start in the fall. Why market? It creates excitement and an atmosphere that people want to be a part. And so the fans know who is on the field which make them hold onto their wallets a little looser. Marketing= selling student athletes (How many non-athletes are sold like athletes?)

Who is considered the best trumpet player coming out of high school? Who is considered the best debator coming out of high school?

Who is considered the best football player coming out of high school? That is easy. Terrelle Pryor, I watched a special last night on him on FSN. I checked the history channel but no high school students are scheduled to be profiled.

Athletes are different. They make the university money. They get paid, right now. Do you think Troy Smith makes the same mistake if he and Maurice Clarrett were being paid a stipend?

Eh? I asked someone else to read that and they said just about the same thing: where in the hell did he pull that from? Sorry...lacks any grain of common sense. But anyway...

Where the hell would you get I would want college sports eliminated? You have been drinking, I am sure. Never a hint of suggestion on that. It is not illegal for a college student to have money during the season. They can work jobs, if they so choose. They can get money from the parents. They can make money in the summer and have money to spend while in season.

Colleges themselves are a business. Not just college athletics. Colleges want to MAKE money. That is how they operate and expand and continue to attact students. Once again, if these kids want to make money right out of high school, GO PRO IN CANADA OR EUROPE! If they don't want to play for the attention brought to them by playing for Ohio State or Michigan or Notre Dame, they do not have to. THey have othe roptions. They are free to get paid there.

And your whole speil about scholarships doesn't make sense. The English is too messed up to follow and be sure I am following exactly what you are saying. Are you saying that if athletics go away, so to scholarships for non-athletic students? Or are you saying that there are now scholarships available to more non-athletic students? Doesn't make enough sense right now to dispatch that, as well.

And Scout and Rivals, who are the main sites you are talking about...for the most part, people have to send in or upload their own information. So if someone doesn't want Scout or Rivals "making money off them," they do not have to create a profile. However, if they want to be recruited, it sure helps. Just their choice: get yourself into the recruiting circle by yourself or don't bother.

And let's look at John Deere mowers. The Ohio State athletic department is the mower. The athletes are the parts of the mower that people recognize, such as the engine and tires, of whom ppl know the manufacturer. However, does anyone know the name of the company that makes the screws or bolts or valve stem covers? Nope. But that doesn't make them any less an important part of the whole machine that is a John Deere mower. If there were no students at OSU other than athletes, Ohio State wouldn't survive as a University. Just like a John Deere mower wouldn't survive out in your yard. Use a car for the analogy as well. Just because the finished product is what people are most familiar with doesn't mean that the tiny parts going into the whole don't matter.

And I was the best debater coming out of high school. Haven't you figured that out yet?

And yes, I do think Smith does make the same mistake. Just because he has problems with following the rules when he isn't getting paid doesn't mean he won't have problems following the rules when he DOES get paid. Does a millionaire drug dealer say he's got enough money from his day job as diesel mechanic and decide to stop accepting drug money? Hell no, he wants the drug money too!!!

In the end, it is still pretty clear: they shouldn't get paid.

[osu fan]

The current system has players being paid illegally.

You have three options:

1) Change the set-up to allow student athletes to receive a stipend
2) Eliminate college athletics
3) Continue to allow athletes to be paid illegally

#1 is not an option for you which leaves either #2 (The Elimination of athletics) or #3 (Continue allowing athletes to be paid illegally)


Do you even recognize that there is a problem with the current situation?

[WONBulldog]

The current system has players being paid illegally.

You have three options:

1) Change the set-up to allow student athletes to receive a stipend
2) Eliminate college athletics
3) Continue to allow athletes to be paid illegally

#1 is not an option for you which leaves either #2 (The Elimination of athletics) or #3 (Continue allowing athletes to be paid illegally)
Do you even recognize that there is a problem with the current situation?

I think you are missing quite a few options. It just shows the narrowmindedness with which you are approaching the subject.

[osu fan]

What options are being missed?

1) The NCAA already has rules in place to prohibit players being paid. These rules are being broken.
2) The NCAA is already doing everything they can to make sure that the rules are being followed. This effort is still falling short.


So simply, the rules are there, the effort is there; yet college athletes are still being paid. How is this a level playing field? It is not. This is a problem.

What other options are there besides these?

1) Do nothing
2) Do something
3) Eliminate it all together and let the athletes find other avenues to continue their careers

2) Do something- what can they do that would change things??? (This is where your creativity can come in play ') )

You can't make more rules because the ones currently can't be enforced. Also, keep in mind that there are things going on behind the curtain of the NCAA to protect the larger universtities in regards to income. (Look at the punishment to Oklahoma and the whole Reggie Bush/USC ordeal) The NCAA is only going to find what they want to find.

In the end, the system will stay this way because the NCAA looks innocent with them not paying college athletes (and it is not their money) and they will let the boosters take care of that. And the playing field will continue to be anything but level.

Edited by osu fan, 14 April 2008 - 07:45 AM.

[WONBulldog]

What options are being missed?

1) The NCAA already has rules in place to prohibit players being paid. These rules are being broken.
2) The NCAA is already doing everything they can to make sure that the rules are being followed. This effort is still falling short.
So simply, the rules are there, the effort is there; yet college athletes are still being paid. How is this a level playing field? It is not. This is a problem.

What other options are there besides these?

1) Do nothing
2) Do something
3) Eliminate it all together and let the athletes find other avenues to continue their careers

2) Do something- what can they do that would change things??? (This is where your creativity can come in play ') )

You can't make more rules because the ones currently can't be enforced. Also, keep in mind that there are things going on behind the curtain of the NCAA to protect the larger universtities in regards to income. (Look at the punishment to Oklahoma and the whole Reggie Bush/USC ordeal) The NCAA is only going to find what they want to find.

In the end, the system will stay this way because the NCAA looks innocent with them not paying college athletes (and it is not their money) and they will let the boosters take care of that. And the playing field will continue to be anything but level.

As stated: an athlete has chances to get a job and earn income that way. Just because he is playing a sport doesn't mean he cannot work (whether it be bustin' balls during the summer of offseason to afford the "extra things in life" (s)he so desires or picking up a job checking IDs at the gym at school during the year). Once again, not all athletes are "breaking the rules" and accepting gifts and such. Just because some are breaking the rules doesn't mean that all are. And once again, AS IS SO CLEARLY OBVIOUS, even if athletes start getting paid to play for their college, that doesn't mean that most of the athletes already accepting money illegally would stop doing so! Their ethics are screwed up enough to risk throwing away a free ride to school and exposure to the next level of play that getting paid to play at college would not stop them from getting MORE money from other sources illegally.

[osu fan]

This is where you and I are different. I see a problem right now in college athletics in regards to money and you don't. Maybe once you get in the real world, you'll understand.

[WONBulldog]

This is where you and I are different. I see a problem right now in college athletics in regards to money and you don't. Maybe once you get in the real world, you'll understand.

If you're in the real world, please let me stay in the world I presently earn a living in as your "world" is set to impolode into a black hole. I know how it works and I know where the foibles of trying to pay them are. Maybe you should get an internship with the NCAA in Indianapolis some summer. It'll definitely help open things up to where seeing that paying athletes is just NOT a good idea, nor is there a reasonable system to implement to allow for such payment.

For some reason, your arguments lead me to believe you have a son or daughter or some sort of relation playing college sports. Your arguments are just reaching and blanking out anything that would support the continued use of non-payment of athletes. While I can understand that a parent or grandparent or whatever wants the most for their child/relation/whatever, however implementing such a system would have far-reaching consequences that you fail to consider.

[osu fan]

If you're in the real world, please let me stay in the world I presently earn a living in as your "world" is set to impolode into a black hole. I know how it works and I know where the foibles of trying to pay them are. Maybe you should get an internship with the NCAA in Indianapolis some summer. It'll definitely help open things up to where seeing that paying athletes is just NOT a good idea, nor is there a reasonable system to implement to allow for such payment.

For some reason, your arguments lead me to believe you have a son or daughter or some sort of relation playing college sports. Your arguments are just reaching and blanking out anything that would support the continued use of non-payment of athletes. While I can understand that a parent or grandparent or whatever wants the most for their child/relation/whatever, however implementing such a system would have far-reaching consequences that you fail to consider.

Why would my world implode into a black hole?

Don't have any relation involved in college athletics.

What are the far-reaching consequences?

Situations are what they are. Athletes are being paid. What do you suggest to level the playing field?

Edited by osu fan, 15 April 2008 - 09:22 AM.

[WONBulldog]

Why would my world implode into a black hole?

Don't have any relation involved in college athletics.

What are the far-reaching consequences?

Situations are what they are. Athletes are being paid. What do you suggest to level the playing field?

Your world would implode because you are so far off base, you have absolutely no idea what the hell is going on! Your arguments are becoming ridiculous. You are clearly close-minded as to the issues and only want to see them from one viewpoint. Open up your mind to other viewpoints and you'll clearly see that you have been clueless all along.

Level the playing field? Through what, ethics classes? You refuse to acknowledge the fact that the athletes that presently are taking money from boosters or agents or anyone else would STILL do that in the future to get that extra monetary compensation. You've avoided it time and time again. You know that it wouldn't work by paying players. Certain players are STILL going to break the rules because that's how they were born and raised and that is how they will go through life.

Further, you ignore other options for these students to make money. You don't care that they are already receiving scholarships to play sports. You don't care that they receive free travel and team gear and exposure to "the next level." You don't care about gift baskets they get from whatever college football bowl game they get chosen to play in or anything they receive for making the NCAA Tournament or the Final Four. You are so keenly focused on one thing that you ignore the fact that they are already receiving extra benefits just by their mere inclusion on the team. The 4th string kicker for Ohio State got a Nintendo Wii all the same as Vernon Gholston did. Perhaps we should have given him a $15 gift card to Wal-Mart and only the superstars get the Wii, since 4th string kicker never saw the field...or the game, since he was standing behind a bunch of 6'8" guys and he was only like 5'6".

Far reaching consequences include (we'll just use Ohio State) Ohio State having to begin eliminating other varsity level sports that do NOT make money because the football and basketball programs (mens) are not bringing in the major dollars to fund those programs now that money is being paid out to players to play the game. The scholarships would no longer be there for the students in those sports because their scholarships are paid for by the football and basketball programs. Further, other sports will have to be eliminated because paying the athletes just isn't feasible when the sport brings in little to no money to match the budget that the sport has necessitated. With more of Ohio State's money going towards paying their athletes, sports will need to be eliminated since Ohio State's budget to support those other sports shrinks. Further, Ohio State's athletic department transfers money to the main campus to support academic scholarships as well as renovations of buildings on campus and creation of programs for students at Ohio State. In the end, while Ohio State's athletic department may be turning a profit on football and basketball, they put that money back into the athletic program and into The University itself.

And while you may argue "Ok, well Ohio State is turning a profit on football and basketball players, so at least pay them." That doesn't work because then you get gender issues and the women would need to be paid, too. So then you are paying athletes whose sports make no money. This could go on forever, but you should get the point by now. (Then again, you should have gotten the point ages ago, so who know!)

Further, something like 20 or less NCAA schools actually turn a profit on their athletics every year. Most schools are actually LOSING money by keeping athletic teams. So, are these schools going to have to pay their players, too? Or is the NCAA going to supplement these teams to "level the playing field" (Look, your catch phrase!). Or is Ohio State going to have to pay a "luxuary tax" because their athletic department makes the most money of any in the United States? Kind of like the Yankees and Red Sox and other MLB teams have to do when they have salaries that are higher than some set league level. So, pay a luxary tax on the fact that people LIKE your teams? Hmm...doesn't sound too "just." Sounds like punishment for being successful, as opposed to MLB instituing it to help small market teams compete with ballooning payroll. Oh...wait...level the playing field again? Perhaps some Ohio State fans should be told to buy Ohio University gear and go to OU games to "spread the wealth." Hmm...doesn't sound like it'd work. So, punish Ohio State for having a large fan base willing to pay to show their support of Ohio State athletics? You've got to be kidding me!

What else ya' got? Sooner or later it will sink in. You just have to open yourself up to other ideas and then you'll realize a few things instead of presenting the same arguments over and over again and just ignoring everything that soundly defeats your position.

[osu fan]

WONB,

Is this a debate or an argument? If this is a debate then don't be pompous and disrespectful to others. You seem rather young still, so here is some advice in a word. Tact. Belittling people as you do will only bite you in the end.

Have a good day.

[WONBulldog]

WONB,

Is this a debate or an argument? If this is a debate then don't be pompous and disrespectful to others. You seem rather young still, so here is some advice in a word. Tact. Belittling people as you do will only bite you in the end.

Have a good day.

Nothing belittling about it. Pretty weak self-esteem if you think it is. You are close-minded as to anything that doesn't support what you want to post. That's the long and short of it. Nothing debateable about it. You repeat the same things over and over again and do not acknowledge your arguments have fatal flaws. My pointing it out is not belittling. Hell, everyone's arguments have fatal flaws. But thats why people go back and forth over issues. If it "belittles" you, perhaps you should join the Barack Obama campaign. After all, anything he says is gold to his supporters, but if you point to the flaws in his thinking and politics then you are a racist. They're close-minded too on issues involving Obama.

And saying I "seem rather young"...is that meant to "belittle me"? Gee...I bet I could take it that way if I chose! Perhaps I could say that you calling me "pompous and disrespectful" is an attempt to "belittle me" as well. So while you can say that, I can't call you close-minded for ignoring everything that has been piled on top of your arguments? Sounds like all you want is people to agree with you but cannot hack it when someone doesn't agree with you and gives you reasons to internally debate your own stance on an issue.

If you want to pout, be my guest. Trying to turn the issues here because your positions in this issue have been dealt a few blows? Pretty lame. Support your position if you like. But don't try to turn attention away from the vast quantity of information layed before everyone that doesn't support you just because you choose not to accept it. Open your mind up and perhaps you'll understand why your views are getting excoriated.

And, as you know if you follow the RC, I get much worse than any of this!. I've been rather kind so far because I don't have a reason to be a jerk. I am a sarcastic SOB and always will be. It helps pay the bills.

If you've got something new to support your position, that's fine, post it. But the same thing over and over again just does your position no justice and just keeps leaving things open for me to present new arguments against it.

And I'll do you one better...have a good WEEKEND!

[osu fan]

WonB,

Been around the RC. Seen your work. Know you can get "worse". But there is no need to be a jerk in a discussion, especially one of ideas about inconsequential matter. The belittling I have seen in other posts (not the ones directed to me here) and thought that I would roll it all into one. I was trying to be nice and give advice so you can have a better life. It is hard to change if you don't know what you can change. (As far as pompous and disrespectful was how you came off.)

You may be surprised to here that I have worked in a compliance department (office). So, I have seen things that people do to put money in their pocket. And yes, when forced by the rules, people did change their attitude and actions. To get the change, you need to make it in their (i.e. student-athletes, coaches and institutions) best interest to change.

I can see a similar change in the athletes and the institutions approach illegal payments to its athletes.

The nuts and bolts. A stipend of $500 a month given to the athlete (of every sport) while their sport is in season (i.e football would be Sept. through December). The money would come from the NCAA and not the institution. The athlete would have to work to make money outside of the season. This would go for every sport, so Title IX would not be an issue.

The NCAA looks away for many infractions that they know are taking place. The blatant ones are the ones they penalize. So, the NCAA stops looking the other and takes an active approach in regards to players being paid. Every scholarship athlete would receive the $500 (even partial). (Similar how a parent makes a statement that they don't want to know what you are doing. And then only punishing you for what you do from talk in the community like about what you did at a party/did to someone; to tickets for speeding and such.)

This will not fix everything right away but things won't be the same. Once the athletes and institutions realize the seriousness of the NCAA there would be a new attitude. Especially if the NCAA starts fining the institutions for violations of player payment as opposed to just taking scholarships and NCAA banners/wins. Although the scholarship is a loss of a student for two years so you talking about $30,000-$70,000; what about a $200,000 fine for failure to comply?

In reality, the NCAA won't do anything any differently. They know that players are receiving "illgegal" benifits. The good news for the NCAA is that it is not their money. And it does not take any more effort on their end to keep the current system. As long as it stays behind the scenes, they'll leave it alone.

You'll continue to see things your way. I will continue to see things mine. I'll just agree to just disagree.

Edited by osu fan, 18 April 2008 - 10:47 AM.

[WONBulldog]

WonB,

Been around the RC. Seen your work. Know you can get "worse". But there is no need to be a jerk in a discussion, especially one of ideas about inconsequential matter. The belittling I have seen in other posts (not the ones directed to me here) and thought that I would roll it all into one. I was trying to be nice and give advice so you can have a better life. It is hard to change if you don't know what you can change. (As far as pompous and disrespectful was how you came off.)

You may be surprised to here that I have worked in a compliance department (office). So, I have seen things that people do to put money in their pocket. And yes, when forced by the rules, people did change their attitude and actions. To get the change, you need to make it in their (i.e. student-athletes, coaches and institutions) best interest to change.

I can see a similar change in the athletes and the institutions approach illegal payments to its athletes.

The nuts and bolts. A stipend of $500 a month given to the athlete (of every sport) while their sport is in season (i.e football would be Sept. through December). The money would come from the NCAA and not the institution. The athlete would have to work to make money outside of the season. This would go for every sport, so Title IX would not be an issue.

The NCAA looks away for many infractions that they know are taking place. The blatant ones are the ones they penalize. So, the NCAA stops looking the other and takes an active approach in regards to players being paid. Every scholarship athlete would receive the $500 (even partial). (Similar how a parent makes a statement that they don't want to know what you are doing. And then only punishing you for what you do from talk in the community like about what you did at a party/did to someone; to tickets for speeding and such.)

This will not fix everything right away but things won't be the same. Once the athletes and institutions realize the seriousness of the NCAA there would be a new attitude. Especially if the NCAA starts fining the institutions for violations of player payment as opposed to just taking scholarships and NCAA banners/wins. Although the scholarship is a loss of a student for two years so you talking about $30,000-$70,000; what about a $200,000 fine for failure to comply?

In reality, the NCAA won't do anything any differently. They know that players are receiving "illgegal" benifits. The good news for the NCAA is that it is not their money. And it does not take any more effort on their end to keep the current system. As long as it stays behind the scenes, they'll leave it alone.

You'll continue to see things your way. I will continue to see things mine. I'll just agree to just disagree.

No offense, but I haven't gone into "jerk" mode yet. But I can certainly get there if someone would like. It is a really fun mode to be in, let me tell ya'! And I've seen your work on the RC, too. Sounds like you are in denial of ever belittling anyone, whether a poster or some athlete. And if your advice was meant to give someone a better life, you sure shouldn't be a guidance counselor, psychiatrist, doctor or ANYTHING that deals with the human race on a daily basis, as people's lives would surely suffer if they followed your asinine line of thinking. You and Dr. Kevorkian may be in business together if you believe that what you preach will give people a better life. I mean, unless they are looking to end theirs, nobody should ever be listening to the information you choose to curse us with.

Plus, hey, I haven't started belittling yet. I am going through bouts of glorious sarcasm right now. Hell, I could argue either side of this issue, should I choose. However, I am arguing the proper side because paying athletes is already being done: we straight-forward, logical-minded humans call it "scholarships," "travel," "meals," "exposure" and everything else I've talked about throughout this thread...but you've just closed your eyes when it came to reading because, God forbid, it didn't agree with your position.

Worked in a compliance office? Wow, hasn't shown. Amazing you decide to state that RIGHT NOW. Just hoping to add some credibility with some fake past, huh? Kudos. Perhaps you are also Superman? Should we all look into Kryptonite to protect us from the continued dissemination of such crap?

And look at the U.S. prison system. There's that thing about "repeat offenders." Some people are reformed and won't commit their crime(s) again...or just not get caught. Most will be right back into jail or prison. It is their way of life. They don't change. Hate to tell ya', but this doesn't just apply to criminals. Athletes taking money outside of the rules NOW would likely continue to do so. Coaches doing illegal recruiting will continue to do so. It is just the nature of the human being. You're arguments that it would change everything clearly have no basis to argue. It is just a theory with NOTHING backing it. Not a shred of evidence supporting you. However, looking at human nature, it is pretty clear that positions opposing yours are so clearly accurate.

So, sure, continue to see it your way. However, turn your head to the left or right instead of only staring at that which you choose to believe and you'll see that it doesn't work and your line of thinking is flawed beyond the plan of battle for the continuation of the conflict in Iraq. Pretty plain and simple.

[Coach Normous]

wonb,

please answer this question truthfully,

I do not know where you work, but suppose that you worked at McDonalds and the only payment given to McDonals's employees around the country was cheeseburgers. Now suppose that one of your coworkers or supervisor began to make a lot of money off of the things that you were doing, but you were given no extra compensation other than cheeseburgers. What would you do then? Quit and move to europe as an 18 year old where they pay you in real money?

That is what you are asking these athletes to do. Many of them may not see the compensation of an education as desirable, just like you may not see the cheeseburgers as desireable. I think that it is a little ridiculous that in your eyes it is an easy choice to just move to canada or europe to play. That's no big deal, huh?

[WONBulldog]

wonb,

please answer this question truthfully,

I do not know where you work, but suppose that you worked at McDonalds and the only payment given to McDonals's employees around the country was cheeseburgers. Now suppose that one of your coworkers or supervisor began to make a lot of money off of the things that you were doing, but you were given no extra compensation other than cheeseburgers. What would you do then? Quit and move to europe as an 18 year old where they pay you in real money?

That is what you are asking these athletes to do. Many of them may not see the compensation of an education as desirable, just like you may not see the cheeseburgers as desireable. I think that it is a little ridiculous that in your eyes it is an easy choice to just move to canada or europe to play. That's no big deal, huh?

Actually, you have a CHOICE not to work at McDonald's. But, hey, you want to come up with another company? So be it. You have a CHOICE not to work there, either. You have a CHOICE not to do something if it isn't paying or doing for you what you want. If there is one company paying in dollars and cents, but you have no desire to work for that company, it is still your CHOICE to work there or not to work there. And if you desire to work for that company, but they won't hire you, that is THEIR choice. Next?

[Coach Normous]

Actually, you have a CHOICE not to work at McDonald's. But, hey, you want to come up with another company? So be it. You have a CHOICE not to work there, either. You have a CHOICE not to do something if it isn't paying or doing for you what you want. If there is one company paying in dollars and cents, but you have no desire to work for that company, it is still your CHOICE to work there or not to work there. And if you desire to work for that company, but they won't hire you, that is THEIR choice. Next?

Interesting how it is all about choices according to this post, yet a basketball player does not have the CHOICE to play professionally right away. Seems like we have come full circle.

[Osu4me]

Are you selling high school jerseys and changing the number every year based on who is wearing that jersey?

Actually high schools can do this. We have jerseys being sold in our bookstore at LCC. The are look alikes of what the team wears and as parents we can have our sons football number on the front and the back with lettering on the back. Money from sales goes to the booster club. I have one!! It's great for football games on cold nights over a hooded sweathirt!! It's great for a keepsake later in life!!

[Coach Normous]

Actually high schools can do this. We have jerseys being sold in our bookstore at LCC. The are look alikes of what the team wears and as parents we can have our sons football number on the front and the back with lettering on the back. Money from sales goes to the booster club. I have one!! It's great for football games on cold nights over a hooded sweathirt!! It's great for a keepsake later in life!!

That's a little different. There are not racks of jerseys with your son's football number on it. I do agree that it is a great keepsake.

[WONBulldog]

Interesting how it is all about choices according to this post, yet a basketball player does not have the CHOICE to play professionally right away. Seems like we have come full circle.

Choice to play professionally lies in Europe. So (s)he does have a choice to play professionally. Sorry to burst the bubble.

If you want to be a doctor in the U.S., you have to go to Med School for several years and pass your boards. Can't just jump right to it no matter how many surgeries you may have performed on cadavers in human anatomy class in undergrad. However, if you don't want to wait to be a doctor in the U.S., perhaps some poor African country will take you. If you can find a place, your choice.

Hell, you have to pass boards to be an RN, LPN and STNA. Lots of jobs require you to "serve some time" in college or "in the field" making jack-squat before you are given the opportunity to "make it big."

Wow, you folks need better arguments. All this simple rebutting of your arguments I've had to do hasn't done enough to give me carpal tunnel syndrome in an effort to get on Worker's Comp and stay home all day posting on the RC. Do some research or something! Make it more difficult!

Oh...and I like Doritos!

[Coach Normous]

Oh great WONB,

I wonder why it is so hard for you to see the difference between a doctor going to MEDICAL school to become a doctor and a basketball player going to school to be a basketball player. The equal comparison would be a basketball player going to BASKETBALL school to be a pro basketball player. Until there is a basketball school, they should have the choice to go pro in their OWN country.

CN