17 replies to this topic

[NDLOVER]

When a player decides to particpate maybe 2 days of the ten days in June and attend very few open gyms throughout the summer? Instead of being with her high school team she is on a "self promotion" tour of college camps in hope of the all mighty scholarship. Think she plays AAU ball with a decent team and should be getting plenty of exposure there. Does a coach do anything or just ignore it?

[40KnightElk]

The coach will play the kids that will help them win during the season whether they attend the "optional" summer events or not. One would hope that those kids that attend the summer open gyms etc will be in a better position to help their teams win during the season but sometimes the talent disparity is too much to overcome. In my opinion, you have to root for those kids that put in all the optional time with their team during the summer however.

[anonymousbball]

First, if the coach had an issue with the player missing to go play in other camps then he/she should discuss the issue with the parents directly and not discuss it with another individual who then posts it on a public forum. It doesn't sound like you have all the direct facts unless you’re the coach posting the comment inconspicuously seeking populous opinion. There were posts on JJHuddle in the Renynoldsburg Shootout thread indicating that some of the top players in Ohio missed their shootout. Their high school teams managed to play without them.

Second, if the player has potential of going D1 or D2 then many college coaches use these camps as a means to get to know their recruits and for the recruits to get to know the campus and coaching staff. College is a big choice and if this kid has the potential to play D1 or D2 basketball then good for her! Less than 2% of all high school athletes go D1 or D2 in his/her respective sports. The kid has to attend the camps when they’re offered. Is it better for her to miss an academic school day for a visit or a day during the summer? Why wouldn’t the high school coach be supportive of his/her players if she has potential of going to play college ball? How committed is the coach to his players versus his/her ego of winning a summer shootout game?

Third, the player is off playing basketball and developing her skill set during the off season. She’s not sitting by the pool. The coach and the high school team will benefit from her off season work. The college camps are run just like a college practice…intense! If this kid also plays AAU then she’s playing more games than the average high school player. I assume the player is a starter since you took the time to post the issue on a public forum. If the kid is absent then why doesn’t the coach take her absence as an opportunity to play another kid who needs to improve her game IQ and work on her skills. Why aren’t you and the coach focused on the development of all players which helps the team in the long run? Summer activities are to prepare teams and players for the upcoming season. If the player was there only two days isn’t that better than no days. Find the positive in the situation instead of making it political and about the coach’s ego.

Finally, if the coach penalizes the girl for playing basketball instead of attending optional summer basketball activities then what precedent is the coach setting for other players who play travel soccer, softball or any other sport that may affect a player’s attendance? What if a player misses a basketball event for another high school sport? This was discussed in the June sports thread. What does a coach do if a player takes all or part of June to go on a church mission trip? Where do the consequences stop? The coach does not own his/her players.

[NDLOVER]

First of all anonymousball I have not spoken to a coach regarding this at all. The girls on any team where this happens know what is going on.

Second- Think the main purpose of the shootouts is for coaches to evaluate the players and see what combinations work the best. Really don't think wins or losses are the main goal. Makes it tough on a coach when all do not particpate. Have seen several players receive D1 or D2 scholarships and not miss the June activities. Sure coaches want their players to go on and play at a higher level, but also want them to be an integral part of the team during the summer months.

Third- I will give you the player should be improving skill wise. Of course the coach will play another kid in the abscence of one. Problem is the girl who is replacing the absent girl gets her hopes up about playing in the winter but most likely will see very little if any court time. Love your comments about how the summer is to prepare teams for the season. If a coach puts in a new defensive or offensive scheme in the summer, the whole team needs to stop once offical practice starts to show this girl how the new schemes work. Last thing I'm trying to do is make this political. Have never heard of a girl doing this before and just wondered what others thought. Do think each and every player does owe loyalty and dedication to the team.

[anonymousbball]

In the larger nationally ranked high schools you will find this path more traveled than in the smaller high schools. There was a nice article written on ESPN Rise about high school basketball coexisting with AAU. I recall a high school coach from a nationally ranked program stating he has no concerns with his elite players going off to do skill camps and playing against higher level talent. He knows that his players will get better and return better overall players. In their absence, he takes the time to work with younger and more inexperienced players to develop depth. When his players come back together during the regular season, he has a better overall team. His elite players are sharper with more refined skills. The reserve players are better and can step in should a starter go down with injury. Overall the team got better in the offseason. Said another way the sum of the parts (individual) increased in value (basketball skill and IQ) increasing the value of the overall team.

From my coaching experiences, because most girls do not watch collegiate or professional basketball, they don't develop a very through IQ of the game. Most plays have to be scripted for the players versus boys who do a better job reading and reacting. Boys tend to spend more watching games and developing court IQ. The players will have to be re-taught the summer defensive schemes and offensive sets contrary to what you believe. For example, our first AAU tournament following the June high school events my players had to be re-taught some of our offensive sets because they forgot.

Regarding the players building their hopes up about playing in the winter, the coach becomes onerous to make sure the appropriate expectations are set. Good coaches communicate with their players on actions they need to take to advance their game and where they stand on the depth chart. If your coach has players on his/her roster that don't know where they stand and what they must do to advance up the depth chart then your coach is a poor communicator. Does your coach provide an offseason workout to the players containing conditioning and skill development? Does your coach provide a local list of skill camps to the players? If not then the parents need to pick up the coach's slack which in your case may be why the parents elected to take their daughter to non high school sponsored events. Last point, if your coach does a poor job of promoting his/her girls then the parents again need to pick up the slack.

Given the wording of your original post like "may be 2 days" or "think she plays" suggests that you or your daughter don't have all the facts of the situation. I hope that your parents and your players don't have any spite or malice towards this girl for traveling a different path because it cuts against the grain. If the players who got to play during the summer because of her absence appreciate their opportunity and learned from it then your team is much better now than if the missing player had been there and taken up most of the playing time.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I am discouraged when I see these kind of posts. They suggest that girls’ basketball is a social event and a status symbol and not a competitive sport. Girls’ basketball is changing and becoming a competitive global sport

[Rocketman]

Summer is just that......summer
it is the off-season for all sports......soccer, basketball, volleyball, softball all have their own seasons.....let the girl and parents decide what they believe is best for their situation......when the season rolls around then go for it

[Coach]

Coaches, parents and players have lost their minds.

Summer is summer! You look at players but never ever should a coach decide who is going to be cut or not in the summer. That is why you have tryouts and should take a week to make a decision on cuts. It gives you a good idea of who has skills but if someone is playing on an AAU team I would say go for it.

I always felt open gyms were for the marginal players that were on the cutting block to begin with. A player that came the most in the summer usually improved more than the player that stayed home all summer.
I remember a year that we had (2) 1000 point scores from the same class, but never came to summer open gyms because they were such good athletes that they were in baseball, football, etc. I know this was back in the 80’s but my point is, coaches demand too much from athletes today as every coach is pulling the athlete every direction. What a shame!

[hs_sports_fan]

NDLOVER, on 18 July 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

When a player decides to particpate maybe 2 days of the ten days in June and attend very few open gyms throughout the summer? Instead of being with her high school team she is on a "self promotion" tour of college camps in hope of the all mighty scholarship. Think she plays AAU ball with a decent team and should be getting plenty of exposure there. Does a coach do anything or just ignore it?

This is the problem with HS Sports. Coaches now think they own these kids for 11 1/2 months a year. These kids need time to be with friends, go on mission trips, spend time with family, go to camps if they so chose, etc.

Rocketman, on 19 July 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Summer is just that......summer
it is the off-season for all sports......soccer, basketball, volleyball, softball all have their own seasons.....let the girl and parents decide what they believe is best for their situation......when the season rolls around then go for it.

Rocket - I think this is the best post I have read in years! Unfortunately, I dont see it changing anytime soon.

[Osu4me]

Rocketman, on 19 July 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Summer is just that......summer
it is the off-season for all sports......soccer, basketball, volleyball, softball all have their own seasons.....let the girl and parents decide what they believe is best for their situation......when the season rolls around then go for it

very well said Rocktman. Unfortunately, I know of several coaches that disagree.

[Common Sense]

Superintendents, high school principals, athletic directors and the coaches need to sit down in April or May each year and discuss what the summer programs are for. They should be for individual player development, but also must be "voluntary". Too many of these kids are leaving one sport to play just one or two. The multi-sport athlete is dying away, and it doesn't have to be that way. Scholarships should be the furthest thing away for 99.5% of all high school kids. Some (not all) D1 and even fewer D2 athletes get scholarships. Just a chosen few get "full rides". It's the biggest myth in college sports these days.
Coaches will play their best players when the season rolls around, regardless of who was there for summer ball. Now, the marginal or not as gifted athlete can the short side of the stick if they don't put in some additional time. Coaches are human, they notice these things.
The ones that get me are the marginal players that somehow "feel" they are big time. Just because a kid plays only one sport does not mean they are great at it.

[Falcon86]

NDLOVER, on 18 July 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

When a player decides to particpate maybe 2 days of the ten days in June and attend very few open gyms throughout the summer? Instead of being with her high school team she is on a "self promotion" tour of college camps in hope of the all mighty scholarship. Think she plays AAU ball with a decent team and should be getting plenty of exposure there. Does a coach do anything or just ignore it?

NDLover, I think I know who you refer to in this post and I think you are way off base. Sure, the team could have improved as a team, but I think in the long run this team will be a lot better, as she participated in camps and played games against players that are far better than what she would have played against in the HS Shootouts. Plus, this girl lost nearly 2 years of basketball due to a knee injury.

As a few others have stated, summer is summer. If girls want to play with their HS team, so be it. If girls want to go to camps to improve and be recognized, so be it. If girls want to sit by the pool, so be it.

I think this comes down to a jealousy issue, as so many issues do with girls. Your daughter is obviously jealous of this girl because your daughter is riding the pine while this girl plays. Come time for the season, the coach is going to play the strongest 5-7 girls.

You don't seem to be upset by several of the other girls on your HS team that missed open gyms and shoot outs for family vacations, so why so much hatred toward this girl who is only trying to get better?

Finally, may I suggest that next summer your daughter attend some camps if she is intent on getting recruited, or if she wants to improve her game. As a coach, I would support this.

[NDLOVER]

I do agree with most of the Posters that summer should be summer and let the kids do their own thing. Unfortunately that shipped sailed long ago.

As far as Falcon86 thinking this is a jealousy issue that thought is dead wrong. I only started this topic because I've never heard of this happening in the little schools in Northwest Ohio as I've stated before. Just wanted to know what others thought of this. Do know of athletes that received D1 scholarships that did attend all the high school summer activities.

Having these girls participate in the summer does a few things to help a program. It shows the player has loyalty and cares about the program. It shows the younger players if " Susie" who is going D1 thinks this is important perhaps I should give it my all. It also allows the younger players to learn bball and perhaps leadership skills from "Susie" .All reasons why if I'm a coach I would want the talented player to attend summer activities. In my opinion this is an unselfish act from the D1 player when they could be playing with higher skilled players.

[milt73]

A kid and their parents have the obligation to do what's best for them, first and foremost. If a kid thinks they have a shot at playing at the next level, by all means go for it. How can you fault a kid for that?

I think all coaches want their kids to be at as much summer stuff, in their own sport, as possible. I don't know of any coach that doesn't want their kids to come to open gyms, coaching nights, camps, tournaments, etc if they are able too. Key to that sentence, IF THEY ARE ABLE TOO. I've had kids over the years miss some open gyms and summer tournaments because they were at a sports camp for a college. Great! They are still playing and putting themselves out there in a positive way.

Are you going to fault a kid because the only time their family can take a family vacation is the same week as a summer tournament? I hope not.

It's summer (even though it's almost over). Let kids go on vacation, let them have fun. I assume we are talking about high school girls basketball here and if that's the case and if this kid is any good, they will zero problem getting back into once November rolls around. Besides if she plays another sport in the fall, she's gonna have to re-train herself anyway once bball season gets here.

[anonymousbball]

NDLOVER, Your choice of wording suggests this thread was started with a sense of jealousy via your dramatic wording. You’re questioning the player's loyalty and commitment to the program. Per your original post she came to the team events when her schedule permitted. A non loyal player with little interest wouldn't have come at all. Since your questioning the player's loyalty and commitment, did she play hard when she was with the team? If she did then you’re off base and you and your daughter should change your attitude since you come from a small community school. If your daughter and her friends hold this attitude during the offseason then what is the in season going to be like for the subject player, the coach, the school and the broader community? As I said in my last post, this thread is so discouraging for girl's athletics. No wonder many talented girls quit sports because of unnecessary mean girl drama. Being a former female player and now a coach, I understand these issues well. It's not easy being a talented player coming from a politically charged school system.

[slice slice baby]

anonymousbball, on 25 July 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

If she did then you’re off base and you and your daughter should change your attitude since you come from a small community school.

ugh

[Common Sense]

milt73, on 25 July 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

A kid and their parents have the obligation to do what's best for them, first and foremost. If a kid thinks they have a shot at playing at the next level, by all means go for it. How can you fault a kid for that?

That statement right there has so many variables in it, and is the root of many of these kinds of problems. Kids (and parents) over value their kids abilities. There are very, very few D1 athletes out there, and unless you are prepared to pay full tuition for your kid to continue to play college sports, it's much wiser to choose what they want to do for a career FIRST, then look at the athletics. So, so many high school athletes head off to college, thinking they are going to step right into the program, then are heartbroken and end up transferring out after a semester or a year.
I've always said if you are good enough, they'll find you.

[milt73]

Common Sense, on 26 July 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

That statement right there has so many variables in it, and is the root of many of these kinds of problems. Kids (and parents) over value their kids abilities. There are very, very few D1 athletes out there, and unless you are prepared to pay full tuition for your kid to continue to play college sports, it's much wiser to choose what they want to do for a career FIRST, then look at the athletics. So, so many high school athletes head off to college, thinking they are going to step right into the program, then are heartbroken and end up transferring out after a semester or a year.
I've always said if you are good enough, they'll find you.

I understand where you are coming from and understand your point. But I disagree with your final point of "they'll find you." I think that is very off-base. Unless you're a super-stud that has D1 schools drooling over you, they aren't going to be knocking on your door and even then D1 colleges want you to contact them rather than the other way around. In the lower divisions, D2 and D3 colleges, the athlete needs to find the college then contact the coach. Unless you're a local kid with a local college, a D2 or D3 school has no idea who you are.

I agree with you 100% that none of these kids are going to play their sport professionally and should go to a college for the education first and foremost.

My original comment of going to college camps goes back to the idea that the original poster was downgrading the athlete because they missed a high school function for a college camp. At least that was my take on the post. A coach should be promoting their kids to experience that type of stuff, but at the same time, they should also be honest with them at their ability levels.

[Common Sense]

milt73, on 26 July 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I understand where you are coming from and understand your point. But I disagree with your final point of "they'll find you." I think that is very off-base. Unless you're a super-stud that has D1 schools drooling over you, they aren't going to be knocking on your door and even then D1 colleges want you to contact them rather than the other way around. In the lower divisions, D2 and D3 colleges, the athlete needs to find the college then contact the coach. Unless you're a local kid with a local college, a D2 or D3 school has no idea who you are. I agree with you 100% that none of these kids are going to play their sport professionally and should go to a college for the education first and foremost. My original comment of going to college camps goes back to the idea that the original poster was downgrading the athlete because they missed a high school function for a college camp. At least that was my take on the post. A coach should be promoting their kids to experience that type of stuff, but at the same time, they should also be honest with them at their ability levels.

Very true, there are actual "companies" that market kids these days. And that feeds the athlete's and parents egos even more. I guess I'm old school and just think too many kids diminsh their high school days by chasing this unrealistic dream of playing at Ohio State, Michigan or some of the other D1 programs. We have alot of small schools around here, and it really doesn't matter what you do in high school, the D1's look at size and speed. I don't necessarily agree, but this is the way they do things. Many kids who are inch short or a step slow get bypassed because they go to a D4 high school.
And I do agree, for the D3 or NAIA athlete, you have to let them know you are interested in their school. But I just hope kids are looking at XYZ school because they'd like to be an engineer, or they have a good nursing program, THEN contact the coaches of that school and express interest in playing a sport. Especially on the womens' side, the pool of kids who actually WANT to play a college sport shrinks dramatically, so there are some very, very marginal programs out there.