76 replies to this topic

[RWB 71]

One thing that always helps out a program (MAC or any other conference for that matter) is the extra week(s) of practice that goes with making/advancing in the playoffs. If a team gets all the way into the state finals, they've realized an extra 5 games worth of experience and weeks of practice which provides huge dividends for future seasons for all non-seniors.

This also provides additional coaching staff experience and leadership development. This is why many established programs "reload" rather than "rebuild".

In the case of the MAC, they have enough enrollment size variance and non-conference related computer points to often qualify 4-5 teams. And, among these, often times progressing 2 or 3 to the regional championship game and beyond.

Edited by RWB 71, 03 December 2014 - 11:16 AM.

[nothalfbad]

I do agree with most of what is posted. I do think there is a lot of pride in the district and communities. I see it just driving thru the area. But, my only agruement is if this is all due to work ethic, families, etc. then why are not all the programs successful? Take Coldwater for instance in bb. They are far from a powerhouse and have never been (in bb). Why not??? If this work ethic and family values make these programs so successful then wouldn't all the programs be successful? Football is what Coldwater and ML are known for. Some schools just have great football programs and other programs are just ok. ML has a great volleyball program as well. Hard work and time is put into the some programs more than others. That is where the success starts and grows from. I am not saying all the rest does not contribute. But to say that MAC is the only league that has those values is slapping all other leagues in the face. Talent, coaching and some luck are the main factors.

[fortfan]

The genetics thing is kind of funny. I know lots ofkids in Fort Recovery that don't get over 6 ft tall, yet their cousins in St. Henry or Marion are all 6'5" or taller…..why is that?

[Bigdogg79]

fortfan, on 03 December 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

The genetics thing is kind of funny. I know lots ofkids in Fort Recovery that don't get over 6 ft tall, yet their cousins in St. Henry or Marion are all 6'5" or taller…..why is that?

Funny, also kids from Celina not much different from Coldwater, St Henry and Marion and yet not as successful.

[BOB]

All the good football players in celina open enroll to.coldwater and marion local

[dawgs87]

I think it has a lot to do with coaches, they definitely have some of the best football coaches in the state, they control everything from regarding player development and strength and conditioning, and they tend to stay put for many years. Genetics is a silly argument, look at the communities of Minster and New Bremen, you can basically spit from from corporation limit to the other, and if you look at the accomplishments of both sports programs, there is a fairly wide gap between the two when it comes to mens and womens athletics.

[Bigdogg79]

dawgs87, on 03 December 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

I think it has a lot to do with coaches, they definitely have some of the best football coaches in the state, they control everything from regarding player development and strength and conditioning, and they tend to stay put for many years. Genetics is a silly argument, look at the communities of Minster and New Bremen, you can basically spit from from corporation limit to the other, and if you look at the accomplishments of both sports programs, there is a fairly wide gap between the two when it comes to mens and womens athletics.

Marion has 79 players listed on the roster: 27 freshmen, 24 sophomores, 14 juniors, 14 seniors. They have 18 players listed at over 200 lbs,and 3 listed at over 250 lbs. Show me another public D-7 team that has that an we can eliminate the genetic variable.

[dawgs87]

The 3 players over 250 doesn't necessarily mean much, Tiffin Calvert had some lineman that were 250+, doesn't necessarily translate to them being better. The 18 kids that are over 200 could be a direct compliment of their strength and conditioning program, not necessarily genetics. From a straight demographics and genetic back ground stand point, Mercer county is very similar to Van Wert, Paulding, Putnam, and Henry counties; lots of German, Catholic, agrarian families. Patrick Henry and Liberty Center had really great programs in the 90's and 00's, they both had great coaches that built their programs to be successful, and their kids bought into those programs and put in the work, those coaches leave and their programs dip into mediocrity.

Edited by dawgs87, 03 December 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Bigdogg79]

dawgs87, on 03 December 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

The 3 players over 250 doesn't necessarily mean much, Tiffin Calvert had some lineman that were 250+, doesn't necessarily translate to them being better. The 18 kids that are over 200 could be a direct compliment of their strength and conditioning program, not necessarily genetics. From a straight demographics and genetic back ground stand point, Mercer county is very similar to Van Wert, Paulding, Putnam, and Henry counties; lots of German, Catholic, agrarian families. Patrick Henry and Liberty Center had really great programs in the 90's and 00's, they both had great coaches that built their programs to be successful, and their kids bought into those programs and put in the work, those coaches leave and their programs dip into mediocrity.

I was born in Van Wert County and lived there until college. I moved to Mercer County 25 years ago. I will tell you without a signal doubt, Mercer County has nothing in common with any of what you mentioned except with the possibility of Putnam County. Yes, a good strength program will increase weight but still this is a D-7 team. The numbers alone are staggering compared with every other public D-7 team in Ohio.

Edited by Bigdogg79, 03 December 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[Rams719]

Bigdogg79, on 03 December 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Marion has 79 players listed on the roster: 27 freshmen, 24 sophomores, 14 juniors, 14 seniors. They have 18 players listed at over 200 lbs,and 3 listed at over 250 lbs. Show me another public D-7 team that has that an we can eliminate the genetic variable.

McComb would be one, But show me another division 7 team that has 79 kids. Most division 7 teams have 35 to maybe 60 kids and how many 200lbs kids are walking the hallways and not playing football. If every division 7 team could get 79 kids to go out for football there rosters would have just as many 200lbs kids as ML

[Rams719]

I agree more then anything its coaching. Patrick Henrys old coach use to say winning is contagious. The younger kids follow the lead of the older kids. Take Kirtland for example. Go back and look at there records in the 90s and early 2000s.Not terribe some success but some bad years as well. Then I believe in 2006 they got a new coach. I read that the 10 years before he got there the football numbers averaged 35 kids. By his 4th year they had over 70. Since then it been consistently over 70 with this year being the most with 76. In 9 years as coach Kirtland has won 2 state titles and a runner up and playing for another this year. His record is an Amazing 105 wins and 12 losses. Did genetics change in the last 9yrs, were these kids raised differently then the ones before coach Laverde got there..doubtful lol..Its the work ethic the coach has installed, Its the respect the coach has earned its a winning tradition that he has started with these kids. They dont want to let there coach down there community etc. Just like in the mighty MAC..Its excellent coaching, getting the most out of kids and gettin the kids to go out for football. Having 70+ kids is a great advantage also The More competition the better.

Edited by Rams719, 03 December 2014 - 06:04 PM.

[dawgs87]

Bigdogg79, on 03 December 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I was born in Van Wert County and lived there until college. I moved to Mercer County 25 years ago. I will tell you without a signal doubt, Mercer County has nothing in common with any of what you mentioned except with the possibility of Putnam County. Yes, a good strength program will increase weight but still this is a D-7 team. The numbers alone are staggering compared with every other public D-7 team in Ohio.

Using New Bremen and Minster as an example, how can one school have 0 state championships and the other have 28, and their corporation limits basically touch. Minster has built a hell of a girls track and CC tradition, football also starting to work its way up, and you're telling me the difference is genetics, or demographic differences in the communities. I don't know much about the NB community or their sports teams, but they have traditionally struggled in football.

[paperboy]

dawgs87, on 03 December 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

Using New Bremen and Minster as an example, how can one school have 0 state championships and the other have 28, and their corporation limits basically touch. Minster has built a hell of a girls track and CC tradition, football also starting to work its way up, and you're telling me the difference is genetics, or demographic differences in the communities. I don't know much about the NB community or their sports teams, but they have traditionally struggled in football.

I don't think anyone is saying it's only genetics, but I believe it's one factor. As to the differences in Minster and NB, I believe there are more than you think. It's my opinion that Crown brings a lot of 'outsiders' into the area and more of these people tend to settle in New Bremen. And no, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just one way the two communities are different. One more would be the percentage of Catholics, as I believe Bremen has a lot more Protestants than Minster does.

[Maltese Falcon]

Bigdogg79, on 03 December 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I was born in Van Wert County and lived there until college. I moved to Mercer County 25 years ago. I will tell you without a signal doubt, Mercer County has nothing in common with any of what you mentioned except with the possibility of Putnam County. Yes, a good strength program will increase weight but still this is a D-7 team. The numbers alone are staggering compared with every other public D-7 team in Ohio.

Yes, I have heard before that is a reason Parkway has a difficult time competing in the MAC is that the panthers are playing in a Mercer county league with Van Wert county talent.

[dc99]

Interesting conversation w/ families, genetics, demographics. Listed on the state report cards for schools is a % of economic disadvantage students. Marion Local and Minster both under 10% disadvantage and Coldwater under 20%. Good families, participation amongst the community and when a 50/50 goes for a few thousand dollars at there high school games. That could add to the secret of their success. "Community"
Parkway is at 31%??
Interesting

[FlightCrew]

I noticed way back someone mentioned no football til 7th grade.
What are the pros/cons to that?

[Mo-Problems]

I'm from New Bremen. Minster and New Bremen don't basically touch. They touch.

What's the difference?!

Parents, coaches, and timing.

Parents need to stay out of the coaches office. That is rule number one in my book. And number two is to trust the administrations coaching hire.

Coaching and timing. Coach Overman left NB when his youngest son graduated from NB after a nice playoff run. In comes the new coach, the cupboard was a little bare. Two losing seasons. He's out the door. That starts the cycle. Goodwin comes in after Cramer in ML and the talent was there. He tells the parents to stay out of his office from day one. If he had made a statement like that with a lack of talent and ended up with a losing season? Parent's would be asking for his head. By winning from day one, he wins over the players, the parents, and the town. That starts the cycle.

Just my two cents.

As for the MAC's dominance over other leagues? It's God's Country. That has to help, doesn't it?

[Coach]

It is all about ATTITUDE!

[Bigdogg79]

FlightCrew, on 03 December 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

I noticed way back someone mentioned no football til 7th grade.
What are the pros/cons to that?

From my observations, if you have good coaches who teach the fundamentals, and keep it fun for the kids, midget football can be a positive as it is for Delphos teams. The problem is that often midget football is coached by some dad who is trying to pretend he is Vince Lombardi. The kids have a negative experience and by the time they get to 7th grade explore other options. For a good example of this go to a Greenville midget game sometime. They have a big WWF type introduction of the players and cheerleaders. They play in a league with teams twice their size. For Marion, St Henry and Coldwater, once a kid gets to 7th grade, if they want to play a sport football and CC are the only options. No midget football is a much better option than bad midget football.

[Justin Case]

fortfan, on 03 December 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

The genetics thing is kind of funny. I know lots ofkids in Fort Recovery that don't get over 6 ft tall, yet their cousins in St. Henry or Marion are all 6'5" or taller…..why is that?

The reason they're taller in St. Henry and Marion Local is because they put their beer on the top shelf. If Fort Recovery wants the kids to grow taller they need to move the beer from the bottom shelf to the top shelf. Motivation is the key. lol