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Pryor, 4 other Buckeyes suspended next season


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#21 ADog

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE (flounder @ Dec 28 2010, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ADog........

I respect you totally, but winning sometimes isn't everything......as for Woody, he ran a pretty straight ship up until the last few years......believe me when I say Tressel would not make a pimple on Woody's a$$.....I lived in that era!!!!!!!!!!

I lived in the era also......and Woody did not run that squeaky clean program that everyone thinks....Did you ever see cornelius greene's Lincoln back in his playing days?.......Knowing where he grew up and how he grew up...there is no way in heck he could have bought that car on his own and everyone on campus at that time knew it..... Jack Tatum.....can we say steroids?....and the list go on. I was a personal friend of Pete Johnson and I could talk all day about some of the things he talked about. Now do not get me wrong...I loved Woody and respect him as all get out..but to say Tresel is to blame for this latest tarnish and that he takes advantage of the system is wrong. You stated that squeaky clean Bob Knight was a product of Woody...I think he was more a product of Fred Taylor than Woody. All I am trying to say is that if anyone wants to dig deep enough they will find something about EVERY program in the NCAA. And did I even mention winning when I talked about Tressell in my earlier post? Nope...I talked about Tressel raising the graduation rate of football players during his time at OSU. You are right...winning is not everything and Coach T has shown that by turning out more graduates than in the past at OSU


#22 PHDigger

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:14 PM

I just used the tattoo thing as an example. But still, what determines a personal item? I totally agree that these idiots should be booted, but the way I see it the rule is not clear at all. And it has nothing to do with me being a Buckeye fan either as I would feel better about the situation if they were all out for the Sugar Bowl as well. But I just don't see how this rule is clear at all. If they sold something that was given to them, how is that any different from selling something they had before they even entered college? I think it would easily be argued. If one of them sold their basketball shoes from high school, it could easily be said that the only reason he got whatever amount for them, was because someone saw value in them due to the athlete's exposure from the sport. If that was the case, then it's no different then selling what they sold or even an autograph. I guarantee my shoes or autograph is not worth anywhere near as much as someone playing under the NCAA rules. Sounds a little out there, but I'm also thinking that a week ago, people would have thought it was nuts to think a player could get suspended for selling personal items. What about selling textbooks after they had the class? Those were given to them too and I gotta believe that happens all the time.

I also think the Cam Newton deal is completely relevant. These guys just sold some stuff. Cam was outright purchased by a school. It all falls under the same deal. No player can gain financially from the sport. Sure it was Newtons parents, but how is that not linked? I really doubt that if any of us contacted Auburn and said "Hey gimme a couple hundred thousand and I'll try to talk this guy into going there." that any of us would get anything. Needless to say, he got off free and clear (at least until about 3 years), so how is that not a variation in the rule? That would be the precedent they set. Just like the murder example, even though its pretty far fetched, if someone went to trial for a certain murder charge, fought it all the way through the system, and eventually was found innocent, it sets that precedent. If another guy had the same scenario, I guarantee his attorneys would run crazy over that precedent. It's an interpretation of the law, or in this case the NCAA rules. Which goes right back to the part about selling personal items. They set a precedent on selling personal items. So how far does this rule go? What if one received a free meal from making an appearance at a charity event? Isn't that receiving something due to the athlete's popularity from the sport? I just think the rules are entirely too vague, and are not enforced evenly. And actually that's why, even though it's still a pretty unloyal thing to do, I honestly believe that these guys had no idea this was against the rules. Heck now they are probably wishing they would have collected a ton of cash to go play football at a school since it's so easy to get away with now. (of course that's assuming they really didn't)

#23 ADog

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:18 PM

^^^^ Great post....agree......You bring out some great points.

#24 jeffcat-bucki

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:47 PM

QUOTE (PHDigger @ Dec 28 2010, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just used the tattoo thing as an example. But still, what determines a personal item? I totally agree that these idiots should be booted, but the way I see it the rule is not clear at all. And it has nothing to do with me being a Buckeye fan either as I would feel better about the situation if they were all out for the Sugar Bowl as well. But I just don't see how this rule is clear at all. If they sold something that was given to them, how is that any different from selling something they had before they even entered college? I think it would easily be argued. If one of them sold their basketball shoes from high school, it could easily be said that the only reason he got whatever amount for them, was because someone saw value in them due to the athlete's exposure from the sport. If that was the case, then it's no different then selling what they sold or even an autograph. I guarantee my shoes or autograph is not worth anywhere near as much as someone playing under the NCAA rules. Sounds a little out there, but I'm also thinking that a week ago, people would have thought it was nuts to think a player could get suspended for selling personal items. What about selling textbooks after they had the class? Those were given to them too and I gotta believe that happens all the time.

I also think the Cam Newton deal is completely relevant. These guys just sold some stuff. Cam was outright purchased by a school. It all falls under the same deal. No player can gain financially from the sport. Sure it was Newtons parents, but how is that not linked? I really doubt that if any of us contacted Auburn and said "Hey gimme a couple hundred thousand and I'll try to talk this guy into going there." that any of us would get anything. Needless to say, he got off free and clear (at least until about 3 years), so how is that not a variation in the rule? That would be the precedent they set. Just like the murder example, even though its pretty far fetched, if someone went to trial for a certain murder charge, fought it all the way through the system, and eventually was found innocent, it sets that precedent. If another guy had the same scenario, I guarantee his attorneys would run crazy over that precedent. It's an interpretation of the law, or in this case the NCAA rules. Which goes right back to the part about selling personal items. They set a precedent on selling personal items. So how far does this rule go? What if one received a free meal from making an appearance at a charity event? Isn't that receiving something due to the athlete's popularity from the sport? I just think the rules are entirely too vague, and are not enforced evenly. And actually that's why, even though it's still a pretty unloyal thing to do, I honestly believe that these guys had no idea this was against the rules. Heck now they are probably wishing they would have collected a ton of cash to go play football at a school since it's so easy to get away with now. (of course that's assuming they really didn't)


This NCAA and tOSU by law is probably one of the oldest and most well known rules in the book. I'm kind of shocked you don't know much about it. This is like saying you didn't know murder was wrong in real life. AJ Green was just suspended 4 games earlier this season for selling his jersey and FSU had a huge fallout with it in the 90s. It's so well known that it gets to the point that they don't even report it anymore. It's just a "common sense" rule that you don't accept improper benefits by reselling items that are given to you by the university for your own financial gain because the financial gain is only because you are an athlete on the team to begin with.


#25 flounder

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 10:35 PM

QUOTE (ADog @ Dec 28 2010, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I lived in the era also......and Woody did not run that squeaky clean program that everyone thinks....Did you ever see cornelius greene's Lincoln back in his playing days?.......Knowing where he grew up and how he grew up...there is no way in heck he could have bought that car on his own and everyone on campus at that time knew it..... Jack Tatum.....can we say steroids?....and the list go on. I was a personal friend of Pete Johnson and I could talk all day about some of the things he talked about. Now do not get me wrong...I loved Woody and respect him as all get out..but to say Tresel is to blame for this latest tarnish and that he takes advantage of the system is wrong. You stated that squeaky clean Bob Knight was a product of Woody...I think he was more a product of Fred Taylor than Woody. All I am trying to say is that if anyone wants to dig deep enough they will find something about EVERY program in the NCAA. And did I even mention winning when I talked about Tressell in my earlier post? Nope...I talked about Tressel raising the graduation rate of football players during his time at OSU. You are right...winning is not everything and Coach T has shown that by turning out more graduates than in the past at OSU


ADog.......

When the children do wrong......who do you hold accountable......just wondering...... and in OSU's case, this isn't the first time the children have done wrong..........sooooooooooooooooo...who do we hold accountable!!!!!!!!!

I also think they should not even see the Bowl Game......he!!, these guys didn't even get a slap on the wrist.....what a joke.....do you think OSU's problems are over!!!!!!!! whistling.gif

#26 ADog

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE (flounder @ Dec 28 2010, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ADog.......

When the children do wrong......who do you hold accountable......just wondering...... and in OSU's case, this isn't the first time the children have done wrong..........sooooooooooooooooo...who do we hold accountable!!!!!!!!!

I also think they should not even see the Bowl Game......he!!, these guys didn't even get a slap on the wrist.....what a joke.....do you think OSU's problems are over!!!!!!!! whistling.gif

Nope. I don't think the problems are over...but do you hold the "parents" accountable for what the children do? And you are right..this is not the 1st time children have done something wrong....which goes Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back...at ALL universities..not just OSU...all I am trying to get across is that Tressell and his coaching staff are doing what they can. Will you not give Tress credit for improving the graduation rate or are you just closing your eyes to this and looking at what is going wrong..Heck Flounder....the way you are posting, I have to start thinking you are not an OSU fan at all and see a chance to slam the Bucks....who do you root for?

#27 jeffcat-bucki

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:17 PM

QUOTE (ADog @ Dec 29 2010, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nope. I don't think the problems are over...but do you hold the "parents" accountable for what the children do? And you are right..this is not the 1st time children have done something wrong....which goes Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back...at ALL universities..not just OSU...all I am trying to get across is that Tressell and his coaching staff are doing what they can. Will you not give Tress credit for improving the graduation rate or are you just closing your eyes to this and looking at what is going wrong..Heck Flounder....the way you are posting, I have to start thinking you are not an OSU fan at all and see a chance to slam the Bucks....who do you root for?


He is either a domer or scUM fan. I'm guessing he is a scUM fan since he favors the yellow and blue colors of DSJ. I saw that alot.

#28 cougarsno1

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE (jeffcat-bucki @ Dec 29 2010, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He is either a domer or scUM fan. I'm guessing he is a scUM fan since he favors the yellow and blue colors of DSJ. I saw that alot.


If you knew Flounder he is neither!

#29 flounder

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 12:36 AM

QUOTE (ADog @ Dec 29 2010, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nope. I don't think the problems are over...but do you hold the "parents" accountable for what the children do? And you are right..this is not the 1st time children have done something wrong....which goes Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back...at ALL universities..not just OSU...all I am trying to get across is that Tressell and his coaching staff are doing what they can. Will you not give Tress credit for improving the graduation rate or are you just closing your eyes to this and looking at what is going wrong..Heck Flounder....the way you are posting, I have to start thinking you are not an OSU fan at all and see a chance to slam the Bucks....who do you root for?


ADog........

You are correct...I am a huge Oklahoma fan...have been dating back to Chuck Fairbanks days.......I got tired of watching boring football during the Woody Hayes days....and you should also read the books on Bobby Knight.....he does relate days back to Fred Taylor, but Woody Hayes made a huge impact on Bobby Knight....both are big history buffs...hence you get the General Robert Montgomery Knight...

There really is some good football teams outside of Ohio......even former Coach Earl Bruce stated that OSU should realize that there are bigger rivalries in the nation other than OSU/Michigan game, and that the OSU fans should get out of their cozy little cocoon and try to observe some....with that being said......

Go Arkansas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like you ADog, so please don't take this to serious!!!!!!!

#30 jeffcat-bucki

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 12:42 AM

QUOTE (cougarsno1 @ Dec 29 2010, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you knew Flounder he is neither!


If I knew Flounder I'm pretty sure one of us would of killed each other by now.

#31 jeffcat-bucki

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 12:44 AM

QUOTE (flounder @ Dec 30 2010, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ADog........

You are correct...I am a huge Oklahoma fan...have been dating back to Chuck Fairbanks days.......I got tired of watching boring football during the Woody Hayes days....and you should also read the books on Bobby Knight.....he does relate days back to Fred Taylor, but Woody Hayes made a huge impact on Bobby Knight....both are big history buffs...hence you get the General Robert Montgomery Knight...

There really is some good football teams outside of Ohio......even former Coach Earl Bruce stated that OSU should realize that there are bigger rivalries in the nation other than OSU/Michigan game, and that the OSU fans should get out of their cozy little cocoon and try to observe some....with that being said......

Go Arkansas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like you ADog, so please don't take this to serious!!!!!!!


Ummm no. Not even close. I've attended an Auburn/Alabama game and that's about as close as it gets but still a distant second to tOSU/Bichigan. And don't pull up OU/Texas or OU/Nebraska from the old days because while they are big rivalry games, they don't hold a candle to tOSU/Bichigan.

#32 flounder

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:35 PM

QUOTE (jeffcat-bucki @ Dec 30 2010, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ummm no. Not even close. I've attended an Auburn/Alabama game and that's about as close as it gets but still a distant second to tOSU/Bichigan. And don't pull up OU/Texas or OU/Nebraska from the old days because while they are big rivalry games, they don't hold a candle to tOSU/Bichigan.


ummm yes.....I have been to the Texas/OU games more than once, and it is everybit the rivalry and game as OSU/UM.....and who in the he!! is Bichigan???? My son is a huge OSU fan and thought the OU/Texas game was the neatest thing he ever witnessed in a college game.......you have to get out more 'bucki'!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#33 jeffcat-bucki

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE (flounder @ Dec 30 2010, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ummm yes.....I have been to the Texas/OU games more than once, and it is everybit the rivalry and game as OSU/UM.....and who in the he!! is Bichigan???? My son is a huge OSU fan and thought the OU/Texas game was the neatest thing he ever witnessed in a college game.......you have to get out more 'bucki'!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OU/Texas is probably the most overrated rivalry in college football. Hell the OU/Nebraska rivalry was better than OU/Texas. They play in the middle of the season and it's a nice grand event, but it's just another rivalry. It falls into maybe 4 th or 5th on my all time rivalry list and even below Army/Navy.

#34 ohioguy102474

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 04:34 PM

If they broke rules should there be some sort of consequences? Of course! But here's the curveball..According to the NCAA "the student-athletes did not receive adequate rules education during the time period the violations occurred." Considering that, why isn't the school penalized in some way and it all falls on the players?


Go Bath Wildcats and Wildkittens! Go Ohio State!

#35 ADog

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 04:40 PM

No problem FLounder... I just get agitated when people think OSU/Tress run a loose ship when if people would look at the other schools around the nation....past and present, OSU is among ( when considering the typical top 25 schools) some of the best ran programs. Does stuff go on at OSU? Yes even I with my rose colored glasses know that, but Tress has cleaned up OSU since Cooper and even Bruce/Woody. Heck Bruce took Art Schlichter to Scioto Downs on a recruiting trip...and we know how that worked out...lol

#36 ADog

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE (ohioguy102474 @ Dec 30 2010, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If they broke rules should there be some sort of consequences? Of course! But here's the curveball..According to the NCAA "the student-athletes did not receive adequate rules education during the time period the violations occurred." Considering that, why isn't the school penalized in some way and it all falls on the players?

Becuase you and I both know the school did inform the players that this was/is against the rules. NCAA way to say they punished them but save face......

#37 jeffcat-bucki

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 05:55 PM

QUOTE (ohioguy102474 @ Dec 30 2010, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If they broke rules should there be some sort of consequences? Of course! But here's the curveball..According to the NCAA "the student-athletes did not receive adequate rules education during the time period the violations occurred." Considering that, why isn't the school penalized in some way and it all falls on the players?


My guess is it's just tOSU covering it's ass since they were playing dumb and saying "they didn't know". They knew.......everybody knows.

#38 jeffcat-bucki

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 05:56 PM

QUOTE (ADog @ Dec 30 2010, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No problem FLounder... I just get agitated when people think OSU/Tress run a loose ship when if people would look at the other schools around the nation....past and present, OSU is among ( when considering the typical top 25 schools) some of the best ran programs. Does stuff go on at OSU? Yes even I with my rose colored glasses know that, but Tress has cleaned up OSU since Cooper and even Bruce/Woody. Heck Bruce took Art Schlichter to Scioto Downs on a recruiting trip...and we know how that worked out...lol


Scioto Downs is about as dead as Schlicter's career.

#39 gamekeeper

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 12:34 PM

Money was the drive for the players to be allowed to play period. The bowl game would not have been as entertaining as it was if those players didn't play. And if it wasn't entertaining, the the TV ratings would be down. TV ratings down the the tv money the conferences earn are not as negiotable for further terms. C'mon. the NCAA saved face with suspending them next season. (It will get reduced to less than that I am sure) So they will play without them for the first few games. OSU can say we did what the NCAA told us we needed to do, just like any other big time college program in the nation would have done! Sugar Bowl reps are happy. The world is a better place for all. whistling.gif


And by the way Woody couldn't coach in this era and be as successful... So let's not compare Tressel to Woody. Love Woody, but c'mon. Serioursly.

Edited by gamekeeper, 12 January 2011 - 12:38 PM.


#40 gamekeeper

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 12:56 PM

And one more thing. $20,000 a year. times four equals $80,000. Pryor is getting paid $80,000. He gets a meal plan so he doesn't have to pay for food ever. He doesn't have to pay for books, he lives in a dorm that is within walking distance to every class, and football practice. (his job) So he is out of HS doesn't have to pay rent or for any utilities, food, and has shelter is provided for him better than half the students rent off campus. Wow, that's just tough on a kid. Wish my kid had it so rough, He is lucky he is going to graduate with a teaching degree, and owe 80,000 dollars in student loans. He is lucky because he has to buy his own food, shelter, and pay to go to his current job (classes.) sarcasm.gif

So forgive me if I don't feel for the Student athlete, who can't sell their jersey's for money. Whether or not any of those kids make it to the pros, then are still coming out with the same opportunity's as any college kid. AND NOT OWE ANYTHING. So if the college makes money off their jersery sales so be it. No free lunch you have to play football so WE will give you 80,000. You don't think it's fair don't play and take out student loans like my son and welcome to the real world.

But thats JMO whistling.gif







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