60 replies to this topic

[roadtoC-town]

zerodrama, on 19 March 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

I think OHSAA should have just declared the boy ineligible for the remainder of this year. Allowed the team to continue, and fined the school for the mistake instead of taking away a possible State run from Seniors/Juniors on the team. OHSAA says they are here for the development of the student athlete.

Develop them then. Quit handing out rulings like this and the one in Cleveland that left out a #1 seeded team due to an Administration error. Start Fining the schools that make mistakes like this and quit disqualifying entire teams for mistakes made by the adults.

The case in Northeast ohio where the team is out for too many games played...like the girls had a choice as to whether they played that one game or not...fine the school and allow the team to continue.

Bingo. don't punish the kids who did nothing wrong. suspend the super, principle, AD, and coach for a month without pay. all the OHSAA did was punish innocent kids. Kid played 2 minutes in a blow out game. It was against the rules and a mistake. Didnt alter anything in any game. Punish the people who are getting paid to do their job and didnt do it.

[Dman]

My hunch is the adults who were negligent in duty will be "punished." The kids learn a very valuable lesson about how attention to detail matters. We all learn a lesson about TEAM. You succeed and fail together. Short term disappointment is the price for a greater lesson. The system worked this time...as intended.

[FlightCrew]

Worked fine alright as the basketball gods looked down upon Purcell Marian Cincinnati Shroder....
Shroder sends Versailles home AGAIN.....justice is served.

[tigerball13]

tigers put up a hell of an effort for having 30 hours to prepare...

[Dman]

The lessons are follow the rules, pay attention to details, win/lose as a team, etc. Who wins or loses a specific competition is irrelevant to the lesson. Let's hope Purcell Marian and their responsible adults, and any other similar parties who aren't taking their job description seriously...will do so in the future. Small price to pay in order to promote a culture of compliance. If I'm coaching that team I would use this as a perfect opportunity to demonstrate how one's failure to do THEIR JOB, affects the whole. Forgive, learn, move on...do better next time...

[Maltese Falcon]

Dman, on 20 March 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

The lessons are follow the rules, pay attention to details, win/lose as a team, etc. Who wins or loses a specific competition is irrelevant to the lesson. Let's hope Purcell Marian and their responsible adults, and any other similar parties who aren't taking their job description seriously...will do so in the future. Small price to pay in order to promote a culture of compliance. If I'm coaching that team I would use this as a perfect opportunity to demonstrate how one's failure to do THEIR JOB, affects the whole. Forgive, learn, move on...do better next time...

Right, Purcell Marian's whole team, school and community deserve severe punitive measures for an administrator(s) missing out on a technicality where a player played less than 2:00 in a 40 point blowout, because everyone is perfect and flawless like Dman.

[Dman]

I'm not a member of the OHSAA and never agreed to abide by their bylaws. However, IF Dman were a member and broke the rules, it would be coherent and correct to expect that Dman be punished accordingly.

I also found a elementary discussion of the Nirvana Fallacy for those interested...

http://en.wikipedia....Nirvana_fallacy

[Maltese Falcon]

dman looking deep into my psychological profile aside, I have also heard things such as "let the punishment fit the crime". Unless the OHSAA found something more serious than has been reported, this looks like it was a MISTAKE, or information gathered was incomplete. Sloppy yes, should this lead to forfeiture of a season, I personally don't think so, since given the circumstances, it doesn't look like Purcell marian intended to decieve, and given the outcome, Purcell marian certainly didn't win a game because of the ineligible player.

dman is a legalist, I hope that he never makes a mistake.

[not4michigan]

Unfortunately these are the ones (minor and more than likely just a mistake) that get caught.The teams/ coaches that should be punished are not because they know how to cover their tracks or coach the " move in" players on how to make it legit

[Dman]

The relevant party to label "legalist" in this discussion would be the Purcell Marian administration. They agreed to participate within and uphold the OHSAA Bylaws. By choice, they entered into a legal agreement with the OHSAA and the other member institutions.

If their desire was not to be "legalists" and instead just do what "feels right," then it appears that joining an organization with such legalized bylaws, and predetermined punishment for violating those bylaws was a gross mistake.

It looks like they will have some extra time to determine if they prefer to be "legalists" or free spirits.

[Maltese Falcon]

By my knowledge legalism falls on the side of the prosecution........http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/legalism


theprinciplesand practicesofaschoolofpoliticaltheoristsadvocatingstrictlegalcontrol overallactivities,asystemofrewardsandpunishmentsuniformforall classes.


Do you think the Purcell Marian basketball or possibly entire athletic program should be shut down due to this grievous offense.

[Dman]

What I believe or think is irrelevant. What is relevant is what Purcell Marian agreed to... Here is the legal agreement spelling out exactly what Purcell Marian agreed would be their punishment for violating OHSAA elgibility bylaws. This is true even if one wants to label it an elgibility "technicality."

Bylaw 10-2-3

If an ineligible student participates in an OHSAA-sponsored tournament in a team sport (soccer, field hockey, football, ice hockey, volleyball, basketball, baseball or softball), the team shall be disqualified from the tournament and the last team defeated, or the next highest ranking team, may take its place in the tournament.

I wish the Purcell Marrian administration would have taken the responsibility to comply with and uphold the bylaws. Unfortunately, they didn't. Their punishment is their own fault. Blaming the OHSAA, Internet opinions, etc is really pointing a finger in the wrong direction. This RESULT was predetermined and completely avoidable. Purcell Marion acted negligently. Insomuch that anyone is upset...there is one clear at fault party. Those players, students, parents, opposing coaches, etc who are blaming any other entities are misplacing their ire. I wish this wouldn't have happened. Hopefully EVERY school who volunteers to comply with those 25 pages of legal bylaws will take them seriously...so this doesn't happen again.

Edited by Dman, 20 March 2015 - 06:32 PM.

[Coach]

Too many innocent people punished for such a minor blunder. Need a small panel to evaluate and make the final call on this. In no way did this player help PM win a game. I understand they broke a rule and under these circumstances punishment should come but this is over the top. The punishment doesn't fit the crime in my opinion. Heck, you have people blatantly kill people and they are out on the street in just a few years. You talk about punishment that doesn't fit the crime!

[Mr Bearcat]

Maltese Falcon, on 20 March 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Right, Purcell Marian's whole team, school and community deserve severe punitive measures for an administrator(s) missing out on a technicality where a player played less than 2:00 in a 40 point blowout, because everyone is perfect and flawless like Dman.

It shouldn't matter if he played 2:00 or the whole game. He was ineligible to play.

[Coach]

True

[General Tso]

Did Lebron ever break some OHSAA rules?

[FlightCrew]

General Tso, on 20 March 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

Did Lebron ever break some OHSAA rules?

Not to my knowledge.
Unfortunately for PM, they had no opportunity at due process.

I'll say this, ever since this commissioner took over, things have gone to hell.

[basketballstud]

General Tso, on 20 March 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

Did Lebron ever break some OHSAA rules?

He got suspended 2 games because his mom bought him a Hummer on loan with his future NBA salary.

[Mr Bearcat]

FlightCrew, on 20 March 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

Not to my knowledge.
Unfortunately for PM, they had no opportunity at due process.

I'll say this, ever since this commissioner took over, things have gone to hell.

I disagree. He has tried to clean things up.

[Maltese Falcon]

Dman, on 20 March 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

The relevant party to label "legalist" in this discussion would be the Purcell Marian administration. They agreed to participate within and uphold the OHSAA Bylaws. By choice, they entered into a legal agreement with the OHSAA and the other member institutions.

If their desire was not to be "legalists" and instead just do what "feels right," then it appears that joining an organization with such legalized bylaws, and predetermined punishment for violating those bylaws was a gross mistake.

It looks like they will have some extra time to determine if they prefer to be "legalists" or free spirits.

schools don't agree to join the OHSAA because of their desire to be governed by thr OHSAA.....schools are in it because they want to participate in tournaments. The OHSAA's biggest role is to run the tournament at the Regional and state levels, before that each district board runs the tourney. It is up to schools to police themselves and most do a good job at it. Some try to skirt the rules and do so successfully, and for the most part are let off. As an investigative body the OHSAA is inconsistent, to say the least.