67 replies to this topic

[WONBulldog]

Oh, I definitely am NOT in love w/ the Polar Bears. I am really not too concerned with them in the slightest. But...yeah, so narrowing it down to D-1 and Ohio State now? I mean, seriously, just because some people choose to profit off of selling a certain number for a jersey. They also profit from just selling hats or t-shirts with "Ohio State" on them. Although businesses in random towns profit from selling their local high school apparel. So...yeah...slippery slope, not even a question.

[Coach Normous]

Oh, I definitely am NOT in love w/ the Polar Bears. I am really not too concerned with them in the slightest. But...yeah, so narrowing it down to D-1 and Ohio State now? I mean, seriously, just because some people choose to profit off of selling a certain number for a jersey. They also profit from just selling hats or t-shirts with "Ohio State" on them. Although businesses in random towns profit from selling their local high school apparel. So...yeah...slippery slope, not even a question.

You are missing my point. Selling something with Ohio State on it is selling the institution. Selling something with #33 on it is selling Laurinaitis.

[WONBulldog]

No, pretty clear I got your point when I mentioned jerseys. However, what about all the #7 jerseys that were not sold once Ted Ginn Jr. left Ohio State? Are they just back in storage in some giant building waiting for the next superstar to wear #7 for Ohio State? No, they are out there being sold somewhere. Antonio Henton and Jermale Hines wore #7 this year, but the jerseys are out there for someone to buy if they choose, just a matter of finding them. Now, if you are a fan, would you prefer to buy a jersey that has no number on it whatsoever, or would you rather spend the time to find a jersey with the number of your favorite player? I am guessing you'd choose the latter. If someone wants a Mount Union jersey, are they going to want to buy just the blank jersey with no number? No, they'll want a number because that's what a jersey contains. I mean, I understand what you are saying. But in the end, they get free scholarship money, stipends, and travel all around the nation. They're getting their pay in the end. And they don't want to have Ohio State making money from selling a jersey that has their number on it, they don't HAVE to continue playing. They can just wait their 3 years until after high school is over and enter the draft. But playing college ball is a means to achieve their dreams, so I am guessing most people are going to be more than happy that they have a scholarship to play the game they love.

[bbdad]

Google "Flutie Effect" and see what you come up with regarding the effects of a team upon the fortunes of an entire university. Some dispute this effect but I subscribe to it.

Why should DI athletes be paid? Because their efforts bring in revenue to the school. Regardless of the athlete's love for the game to deny them compensation while profiting from them is to exploit them.

What about the deleterious effects of injuries like concussions and others? What compensation is there for the lasting effects of such injuries?

And while we're at it, pro basketball and, especially, pro football teams should compensate colleges. College athletics are, in effect, minor leagues and again, profiting from them without compensating them is exploitation.

As I stated in an earlier post, it doesn't have to be huge amounts paid to athletes. A small amount in addition to what they are already given would be reasonable.

[WONBulldog]

If you want to go the route of "injuries," there are kids that get hurt in high school too that sustain injuries that have a long lasting effect on a person. Some kids never get to the college level of sports because they play high school sports and an injury ruins a career before it ever started as a career. If we're compensating folks, I could sure use some of that dough for varying injuries to knees and shoulders and ankles and elbows and toes and a nose, among other things.

[Coach Normous]

If you want to go the route of "injuries," there are kids that get hurt in high school too that sustain injuries that have a long lasting effect on a person. Some kids never get to the college level of sports because they play high school sports and an injury ruins a career before it ever started as a career. If we're compensating folks, I could sure use some of that dough for varying injuries to knees and shoulders and ankles and elbows and toes and a nose, among other things.

Keep comparing every argument to high school. They obviously bring in millions of dollars based on their athletes.

CN

[WONBulldog]

Keep comparing every argument to high school. They obviously bring in millions of dollars based on their athletes.

CN

I guess high school students aren't athletes. My apologies for misconstruing their efforts as just "on field physical labor" as opposed to athletic accomplishments.

[Coach Normous]

I guess high school students aren't athletes. My apologies for misconstruing their efforts as just "on field physical labor" as opposed to athletic accomplishments.

Who said they weren't athletes? This is beginning to get foolish arguing with you. THE POINT IS THAT COLLEGE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENTS BRING IN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BY SELLING JERSEYS REPRESENTING INDIVIDUAL ATHLETES. HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC DEPARTMENTS DO NOT. Comprende?

[WONBulldog]

Who said they weren't athletes? This is beginning to get foolish arguing with you. THE POINT IS THAT COLLEGE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENTS BRING IN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BY SELLING JERSEYS REPRESENTING INDIVIDUAL ATHLETES. HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC DEPARTMENTS DO NOT. Comprende?

I think I understood that a long time ago if you cared to scroll up. Or cared to practice literacy. Either way. Its been pretty plain and clear high schools make money off their student athletes as well. Can't even argue it. How many fans did Ada have travel with the team before Zac Dysert, Kyle Baker, Nate Vermillion, etc took the helm for football and basketball? There were games where I could count the 100 or less fans in the stands. Now, maybe some were on the LCC side or standing somewhere along the side...but they didn't travel well. And at home games, there were always empty seats. All the sudden Ada is good and more money comes in because of it. Thus, their athletes are bringing more money into the school.

If you want to talk jerseys, scroll up where I talk about jerseys.

Edited by WONBulldog, 17 February 2008 - 07:07 PM.

[Coach Normous]

I think I understood that a long time ago if you cared to scroll up. Or cared to practice literacy. Either way. Its been pretty plain and clear high schools make money off their student athletes as well. Can't even argue it. How many fans did Ada have travel with the team before Zac Dysert, Kyle Baker, Nate Vermillion, etc took the helm for football and basketball? There were games where I could count the 100 or less fans in the stands. Now, maybe some were on the LCC side or standing somewhere along the side...but they didn't travel well. And at home games, there were always empty seats. All the sudden Ada is good and more money comes in because of it. Thus, their athletes are bringing more money into the school.

If you want to talk jerseys, scroll up where I talk about jerseys.

So how many millions of dollars do those 3 guys bring in for Ada?

[WONBulldog]

So how many millions of dollars do those 3 guys bring in for Ada?

Don't need a million dollars to run a high school athletic department. No plane rides cross-country, no hotel stays of several nights. Not paying the coach millions of dollars.

Next?

[Coach Normous]

Don't need a million dollars to run a high school athletic department. No plane rides cross-country, no hotel stays of several nights. Not paying the coach millions of dollars.

Next?

So give those three boys their cut of the school's revenue then and they can take it to McDonald's and get a double cheeseburger. High school athletics is am extra curricular activity. College athletics is big business and the only logical way for athletes to go professional. They are being exploited.

[WONBulldog]

So give those three boys their cut of the school's revenue then and they can take it to McDonald's and get a double cheeseburger. High school athletics is am extra curricular activity. College athletics is big business and the only logical way for athletes to go professional. They are being exploited.

Free education. Free travel. Free exposure to "the next level." If they don't want to go to college to play sports, they do not have to. They can skip it and go play in some European League or some other league where a player doesn't have to reach a certain age plateau to play. Their choice. Whether it is "logical" or not, if they don't want to do any more schoolwork, fly to Europe or Canada. Play there. Pure plain and simple.

[osu fan]

WonBulldog:

To talk about Debate, Band, Choir or any other activity/group (including high school) and comparing them to college football or college basketball is ludicrous. Do you practice Debate or Band 20 hours a week? Band maybe, on your own but not required. Do any of these come close to the monay that is talked about in football and basketball? Which combined is a billion dollar industry. Ohio State alone makes $50 million in football ticket/PSL and Luxuary boxes. I think there are 14 other schools in the country to do that as well. Not to mention the TV rights and Conference Championship Games/Tournaments and Bowl Games. Basketball-March Madness! The amount of money involved is what makes this not comparable to every argument that you pose.

The problem is exploitation and money. The student-athletes want it and schools, NCAA and Vegas have it. The players are going to get in on that one way or another (they already do). Which is the most honest and fair way for the players to receive money?

Maybe we should look at athletic universities that handle athletes only and put the athlete first and not the dollar. Teach them how to take care of themselves physically, and financially and pay them to be there and let that be the minor leagues for the NFL and NBA.

That is right, we already have a system in place that does this. Is the system good? No, it is not. Not enough is done to take care of these college kids. Guidance not only in their (post-athletic career) major but also in their hopeful (athletic) career should be put there for them. Second, take the need for money out of the equation. Pay them a stipend so that they buy clothes and go out and enjoy what college life that they can enjoy.

People will still want and demand more but make things easier on the ones who want to do the right thing.

Edited by osu fan, 05 April 2008 - 11:21 AM.

[WONBulldog]

WonBulldog:

To talk about Debate, Band, Choir or any other activity/group (including high school) and comparing them to college football or college basketball is ludicrous. Do you practice Debate or Band 20 hours a week? Band maybe, on your own but not required. Do any of these come close to the monay that is talked about in football and basketball? Which combined is a billion dollar industry. Ohio State alone makes $50 million in football ticket/PSL and Luxuary boxes. I think there are 14 other schools in the country to do that as well. Not to mention the TV rights and Conference Championship Games/Tournaments and Bowl Games. Basketball-March Madness! The amount of money involved is what makes this not comparable to every argument that you pose.

The problem is exploitation and money. The student-athletes want it and schools, NCAA and Vegas have it. The players are going to get in on that one way or another (they already do). Which is the most honest and fair way for the players to receive money?

Maybe we should look at athletic universities that handle athletes only and put the athlete first and not the dollar. Teach them how to take care of themselves physically, and financially and pay them to be there and let that be the minor leagues for the NFL and NBA.

That is right, we already have a system in place that does this. Is the system good? No, it is not. Not enough is done to take care of these college kids. Guidance not only in their (post-athletic career) major but also in their hopeful (athletic) career should be put there for them. Second, take the need for money out of the equation. Pay them a stipend so that they buy clothes and go out and enjoy what college life that they can enjoy.

People will still want and demand more but make things easier on the ones who want to do the right thing.

Actually, many people do practice band or debate or theater or vocal music 20 hours a week.

And how are you going to divide up the money? Ok, so Ohio State makes giant piles of money, but a school like maybe Buffalo does not make piles of money from their football program. So, if you play for Ohio State, do you make more than the kids at Buffalo? Or what, have Ohio State pay in to Buffalo's athletic program to pay those kids the same that Ohio State players get? And if Ohio State pays athletes more, than wouldn't every high school kid want to go to Ohio State for the opportunity to make more money? So what happens then to players at Buffalo? They pretty much will never get an "athlete they shouldn't" because the students are gonna go for the money and Buffalo really has no chance to move up in and be competitive. And if each school has to pay the same, some schools are not going to be able to fit the bills as well as others. But are you gonna punish Ohio State for being able to bring in more money by making them help to fit the bills for paying players at other schools?

Plus, do we give walk-ons compensation, or just scholarship players? If not walk-ons, then why aren't they getting paid for putting in the same practice work and the like that the scholarship players do? But wait, only the stars are really the ones who are selling jerseys and being "exploited," right?

And do you pay baseball players in college, too? Softball players? Track athletes? Perhaps Lacrosse players? Or just Football and Basketball? And for men and women? Should women be paid when their sports aren't bringing in money? I can hear Title IX (well, may not be the right law, but you get the idea) screaming now if women aren't paid exactly the same as men.

As stated: if these kids want paid now, go play in Europe somewhere or in the Canadian Football League or sign with an MLB team after getting drafted. They don't have the age problems.

[osu fan]

Do you see anything wrong with the current system?

[WONBulldog]

Do you see anything wrong with the current system?

You mean that athletes in college are not getting paid? Nope, not really. Someone can have dramatic brain trauma result from a hit in Jr. High Football just as in college. Someone can be "pushed through" classes just to play football in High School (hell, Junior High as well) just like someone could be in college...then after high school is done and they aren't playing anymore, they are a "has been" locally and the next football stud is hyped amongst the locals [actually have had a conversation to this effect with someone to this effect before].

[osu fan]

You mean that athletes in college are not getting paid? Nope, not really. Someone can have dramatic brain trauma result from a hit in Jr. High Football just as in college. Someone can be "pushed through" classes just to play football in High School (hell, Junior High as well) just like someone could be in college...then after high school is done and they aren't playing anymore, they are a "has been" locally and the next football stud is hyped amongst the locals [actually have had a conversation to this effect with someone to this effect before].

So money for college athletes coming from boosters and bookies are okay? What does that teach them about ethics? College atheltics is not innocent as you want to portray it to be. It is a business and sometimes a dirty business as college athletes have admitted to fixing games for money. To say, "Well, thats life." or, "That is the way it is in the real world." both demonstate an irresponsible attitude. Change the system to protect players and the integrity of games.

High school, Junior high or even peewee sports of any kind, how much money are we talking about? The worst people brought into these kids lives are coaches and/or parents. The amount of money we are talking about in college athletics with just Ohio State are millions upon millions of dollars. Start with the parents and/oir coaches, professors, boosters and small bookies to these kids lives. The law acknowledges that you are not a full adult until you are 21. Student loan filings and car rental companies have rules and regulations that limit people until they are older than 18. Why do you think that is?

Right now, Ohio State players make more money than players at Buffalo. To say otherwise is naive. The money is already there for student athletes and to think that the playing field is level, ask Northwestern or Arizona State. What would you say about a high school kid making money from a bookie to throw a game?

[WONBulldog]

So money for college athletes coming from boosters and bookies are okay? What does that teach them about ethics? College atheltics is not innocent as you want to portray it to be. It is a business and sometimes a dirty business as college athletes have admitted to fixing games for money. To say, "Well, thats life." or, "That is the way it is in the real world." both demonstate an irresponsible attitude. Change the system to protect players and the integrity of games.

High school, Junior high or even peewee sports of any kind, how much money are we talking about? The worst people brought into these kids lives are coaches and/or parents. The amount of money we are talking about in college athletics with just Ohio State are millions upon millions of dollars. Start with the parents and/oir coaches, professors, boosters and small bookies to these kids lives. The law acknowledges that you are not a full adult until you are 21. Student loan filings and car rental companies have rules and regulations that limit people until they are older than 18. Why do you think that is?

Right now, Ohio State players make more money than players at Buffalo. To say otherwise is naive. The money is already there for student athletes and to think that the playing field is level, ask Northwestern or Arizona State. What would you say about a high school kid making money from a bookie to throw a game?

So, your argument for college kids getting paid to play is that they are already getting paid "under the table" by boosters and bookies? So, just because they get paid for playin, you think that'll have players who are getting paid by booster and bookies to say "Hey, no, I don't want that money. I'm getting paid to play for my college now." RIIIIIIIIIIGHT. The kids that are accepting money from boosters and bookies are going to continue to accept money from them even if they do get paid to play for college. It's just an extra payday for them. They already have the ethical problems in their mind when they come in to play. Getting paid to play isn't going to make them want to break the rules any less if there is an opportunity to make MORE money.

And the law acknowledges that you aren't a "full adult" until 21? Well, I am assuming you mean because of the drinking age? The age of majority is 18. Granted, I think that is a little young to be considered "adult", but that is where any crime you commit can send ya' to da' pokey! Most rental car companies won't rent to you until you reach 25. So, you are saying that you can't have "full benefits" of adulthood until at least 21? Well, like I just said, most rental car companies are age 25 to rent a car. I can't get my Golden Buckeye card for a discount on shopping until 55. I can't get retirement benefits until like 62 (can't remember actual age). You can't get the Earned Income Credit on your taxes until you are 24/25. There's a lot of things that require persons to reach a certain age plateau. Just how it works. According to the law, you are an adult at age 18. Just because you can't do certain things according to the law until you reach older ages doesn't mean you are any less of an adult.

Although I think the whole diatribe above is kind of getting off the point...so I digress...

[osu fan]

Do you then suggest the elimination of college athletics or continue to make it illegal for a college athlete to have money while their sport is in season? They are not a typical student and you can not treat them as such. It is a business and how great a business is it that you don't have to pay 2/3's of the work force! If you take athletics away, most of those scholarships go away as well as alumni won't be so generous with their donations. Thus, you are not taking scholarships away from good students. Why do you not want to protect these students?

Many people have heard of Terrelle Pryor but can you name any valedictorian coming into Ohio State or who is the top student nationally? Somehow, we have heard of this football player and not the best student coming to Ohio State? Why do you think that is? Right now you can go to a site and see every football player coming in but there is no site that lists each student coming. It is called marketing. Scouting companies help college football by making the fanatic of a school familiar with freshmen who have not taken 1 college class when games start in the fall. Why market? It creates excitement and an atmosphere that people want to be a part. And so the fans know who is on the field which make them hold onto their wallets a little looser. Marketing= selling student athletes (How many non-athletes are sold like athletes?)

Who is considered the best trumpet player coming out of high school? Who is considered the best debator coming out of high school?

Who is considered the best football player coming out of high school? That is easy. Terrelle Pryor, I watched a special last night on him on FSN. I checked the history channel but no high school students are scheduled to be profiled.

Athletes are different. They make the university money. They get paid, right now. Do you think Troy Smith makes the same mistake if he and Maurice Clarrett were being paid a stipend?

Edited by osu fan, 12 April 2008 - 07:36 PM.