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Athletes getting paid?


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#1 knightmare07

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:13 AM

Should college athletes be allowed to be paid some money for what they do? While in college these athletes get very exposed, you could say even more so than the pros. And I was just wondering should these athletes get paid like the pros for all of the free press that they have to give out, or is how it is now better? I know I prefer them not getting paid to play.


#2 WONBulldog

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 01:51 PM

Scholarships are payment, for the most part. Many players get meal stipends and such, I do believe. They are getting paid in a roundabout fashion, just not with a weekly paycheck. If we want athletes paid for the recognition they bring their school during competition, why not start paying off Mock Trial, Engineering, Debate, Vocal Music, and Theatrical performance "teams" for their competitions where they bring their school some recognition? Once again, these sorts of competitors are getting "paid" in the form of a trip somewhere, hotels, food, and other lil' whatevers that may come along with the territory. You go to college to get ready for the real world (although I will certainly contend that college is pretty useless in many instances and is merely used as a tool to delay people from entering and oversaturating the workforce with persons willing to work cheap because they don't have the huge debt to pay off right out of high school...If that happened, the people that have been in that field for a long time would get pushed out because they make more money, but they also have the home mortgages to pay off and such...the academic part of college is EVIL!!! furious.gif ). So...yeah, all these teams are getting themselves ready for their hoped-for future in the pros for athletics. Let them take their lumps and see if they can make it or not in the first place.
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#3 knightmare07

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:13 PM

Very good post!!

#4 FrOnT RoW JOE

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:35 PM

no they shouldnt get paid, a scholorship is good enough..........
You'll be proud of our young people in the classroom, in the community, and most especially in 310 days in Ann Arbor, Michigan on the football field. - Jim Tressel

#5 bbdad

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 12:25 PM

While I agree that a scholarship is, in part, payment it is not always an equitable trade for services rendered. Top line colleges make a tremendous amount of money from revenue generating sports and merchandising. It is the revenue generated from the latter source that I think should be addressed.

If a team puts out licensed material with a name and/or number on it, the player or players should receive a portion of that revenue. Ohio State will put a team on the field regardless of whether the quarterback is Troy Smith or Todd Boeckman and revenues will be approximately the same. However, if it gets revenue from a Boeckman jersey he should get a portion of it. Conceivably, sales would not be the same with a generic number or name on the jersey.

The problem with paying players this way is that kids will choose schools based primarily upon projected sales instead of academics (well, that happens anyway but bear with me). To resolve this I'd suggest player related team memoriabilia sales go into a pool shared by all athletes within a division.

Memoriabilia sales of many pro sports are distributed this way. The last figure I saw was that baseball players receive about 100k each year from card sales, jersey sales, etc. The union handles this pooled money. It is fair to pool this money even though, for example, the player jersey is Pujols because in theory he couldn't play without the existence of the other players.

And be careful when discounting the value of a college education. In many ways higher education has become a replacement for apprenticeships. However, when viewed by the student as a mechanism for training the mind its value can be tremendous. Classes in critical thinking, logic and philosophy, for example, have helped me personally and professionally.

Don't misunderstand me. There are many people more productive and intelligent than I am who are running around in this world who have never set foot on a college campus. It is just that there are many people like me who are personally better off for having gone to college.

And no this doesn't refute my earlier argument. I have had many experiences in life that I have gained from but wouldn't go through again without more equitable compensation.

#6 WONBulldog

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 02:03 PM

Most every college jersey I have seen doesn't contain the name of any specific player unless the individual purchaser pays extra after buying the jersey with the number on it to actually have a name put on it, too. Trying to remember, but I don't think jerseys with the actual player's name on them can be sold. If the name gets on the back of it, it is put on there after the manufacture of the item.

And if you were referencing my post when stating not to discount the value of an education, I certainly do not intend to do so. Just many majors in college do not require you to actually go to college to learn the information. My theory has always been this: If you already know how to do it, why waste money at college doing it and not learning anything more about how to do it? Most of that comment is directed at people who are strictly in the majors I like to refer to as the "you either can do it already or not" majors, as I was pressured hard to go into theater and/or creative writing, among others, out of high school, but why the hell would I want to spend a dime to be in a theater play at a college when I could put any money I would have to borrow in loans into moving to an area to put my acting skills to the test? Or, hell, I could just write myself a book without having to suffer through college creative writing classes telling me how to do it. And for those who aren't performance arts majors or , so many general education classes are useless repeats of things I learned in High School. My college math class was below what I learned my freshman year of high school because I had to have a college math, despite the fact I tested out of calculus going in. Sure, I'll show up 5 times a year for the 5 tests given, get the highest score the professor has ever given, and just sleep in a whole lot. But what's the point? Hell, I didn't buy my books many times, and actually had the same text book from high school for one of my classes. That's not beneficial to a student, but if the school isn't going to let you out of it, then you just waste time getting your A.

And I'm not misunderstanding you, bbdad. College does do good for many people. But for many people, it is basically an unneeded delay into getting into the workforce. However, having college around so that I can root for the Buckeyes does make for some interesting Fall Saturdays!!! biggrin.gif
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#7 knightmare07

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 03:30 PM

Unfortunatley, alot of these athletes will not go on to pro sports... they need that education and unfortunatley, many places won't even consider you without a college degree.

#8 osu fan

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 03:50 PM

QUOTE(WONBulldog @ Sep 7 2007, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If we want athletes paid for the recognition they bring their school during competition, why not start paying off Mock Trial, Engineering, Debate, Vocal Music, and Theatrical performance "teams" for their competitions where they bring their school some recognition?


The difference between these things and football and basketball is the lack of income that these other programs rake into their respective departments. It is well documented that football pays for every other sport at the school. Basketball in some instances brings in extra money as well. Taking Ohio State as an example: (I know that it is a better than average team but one I am most familiar with)

Tickets (face value) $61.00 100,000 of these tickets are sold. $6,100,000/game (8 games= $48.8 million/season)
Personal Seat Licensing and Luxury Boxes: $2,500/season PSL; $25,000/season luxury box
T-Shirts/hats/jackets/sweatshirts along with other collectables: Ohio State receives licensing fees
Programs/seat cushions/concessions: Ohio State receives a portion for each

Basketball has a similar effect but not as much gate money. But they also have their luxury boxes.

None of those clubs you mention compares to the amount of money these sports bring.


#9 WONBulldog

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:53 AM

Clearly academic teams and such don't bring income to the school, but what about a student who is assisting in research for a professor at the school? Do they get paid for their accomplishments if they help with a scientific breakthrough? Nope, just a student. Many universities have policies wherein if any product created by use of university facilities becomes profitable, the university owns it. Something along those lines, I just can't think of better words. Basically, if you make some scientific discovery in the lab at OSU, it belongs to OSU, but you do get the credit for it. Now, I think that's a lil' shady, but without the university facilities available, said discovery may never have been made. Or could have been made at another university. I don't know if OSU is such a school, but I wouldn't doubt it.

If a student-athlete says "well, because someone is profiting off of my playing football for them, I don't want to play anymore until I get paid", the university will go out and get someone willing to play for the scholarship and their future instead of dealing with the guy flushing it away by being greedy and wanting it all before proving he can handle it on the field at a new level.

Universities/high education is/are merely a business. They want to be profitable. They bring in people through scholarships that they believe can help their institution in the future, be it on the athletic field or through donations after graduation and landing that $250K/year job because of their affiliation with the university. Just with football, the investment is returned a lot quicker than with academic scholarships.
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#10 RadioMan11

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:19 PM

I think a thing to remember is that athlete or not, kids are at college for an education, not to play ball. The incentive is they get a full ride, and if their team succeeds enough (this is DI-A) they get a bunch of stuff for making bowl games.

There is time in the off season for them to work to make money to spend during the season. They should be focused on their respective sports, not money, during the season. Agree?

#11 Edwards43

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 11:43 PM

QUOTE(osu fan @ Oct 7 2007, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The difference between these things and football and basketball is the lack of income that these other programs rake into their respective departments. It is well documented that football pays for every other sport at the school. Basketball in some instances brings in extra money as well. Taking Ohio State as an example: (I know that it is a better than average team but one I am most familiar with)

Tickets (face value) $61.00 100,000 of these tickets are sold. $6,100,000/game (8 games= $48.8 million/season)
Personal Seat Licensing and Luxury Boxes: $2,500/season PSL; $25,000/season luxury box
T-Shirts/hats/jackets/sweatshirts along with other collectables: Ohio State receives licensing fees
Programs/seat cushions/concessions: Ohio State receives a portion for each

Basketball has a similar effect but not as much gate money. But they also have their luxury boxes.

None of those clubs you mention compares to the amount of money these sports bring.

The athletes are being pimped !

#12 bbdad

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 01:37 PM

QUOTE(RadioMan11 @ Nov 20 2007, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think a thing to remember is that athlete or not, kids are at college for an education, not to play ball. The incentive is they get a full ride, and if their team succeeds enough (this is DI-A) they get a bunch of stuff for making bowl games.

There is time in the off season for them to work to make money to spend during the season. They should be focused on their respective sports, not money, during the season. Agree?


Make money in the off-season? For most in D-1 this is next to impossible. Regardless of what NCAA regulations are, kids have to work hard at classes in the off-season to ensure they are eligible. Add to this, mandatory "optional" workouts, physical training, etc. Big time athletics and classes add up to more than full time jobs.

I am not advocating these kids making full time incomes. Instead, I say they should be allowed to make money beyond a meal stipend. If it were capped it could help ensure a lack of abuse.

Here's the big difference between athletics and academics; academicians can make money from their educational pursuits while still in college. Athletes cannot do the same. Students can, and have, started businesses and/or revolutionized industries from their papers while still in college. An accounting student is not penalized for working as an accountant even though he/she may have been able to obtain employment DURING school because of skills learned in college.

Conversely, a football player a few years ago was deemed ineligible for that sport because he appeared in advertisements that were a result of his skiing prowess.

#13 JAB

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 11:49 PM

Ohio State is one of a very only few Athletic dept. that make a big enough profit to give a little back to the students. But i think the boosters pay the students good enough. I go to school at BGSU and live next to football players one of them drives a brand new chevy tahoe and the first thing i ever seen them move into their house was a 50" plasma tv. So I don't know about the rest of you but most college kids don't have stuff like that and i know most of the ball players don't have jobs. If its like that here it has to be alot worse at other big D1 schools. eek.gif

Oh and the comment about universities wanting to make a profit of things made on their campus is totally true. we always having problems at the research lab i work with the university lawyers. cool.gif

#14 Coach Normous

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 10:07 PM

QUOTE(RadioMan11 @ Nov 20 2007, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think a thing to remember is that athlete or not, kids are at college for an education, not to play ball. The incentive is they get a full ride, and if their team succeeds enough (this is DI-A) they get a bunch of stuff for making bowl games.

There is time in the off season for them to work to make money to spend during the season. They should be focused on their respective sports, not money, during the season. Agree?


Radioman,
I completely disagree with your first sentence. Most of these kids are mandated to attend college in order to try to be a professional. Remember the rules. Football players cannot go pro without being 3 years removed from high school. Basketball players must now wait a year. Of course a college education is a terrific asset, but the individuals should be the one to make that decision. Also, while there are no names on the back of the O-state jerseys, why do the numbers change every year then? How about if your employer told you that instead of giving you money as compensation they were going to give you a lifetime supply of Fritos? Fritos are great, but you'd rather have the money. I am sure most college athletes are the same way. Bottom line is that college athletics have gotten so far removed from having anything to do with education that they should just separate themselves completely from the university. They should form independent leagues or something and be the minor leagues for the NBA and NFl that they are anyways. At least then you can give the athletes compensation that they may choose to have. If they want to go to college, that would be there choice, and it would not be mandated as a route to get the be a professional.

#15 WONBulldog

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 08:25 AM

So, should we be paying some high school students who play sports, too, because that Friday night gate can be pretty hefty for a big match-up.
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#16 Coach Normous

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 01:19 PM

QUOTE(WONBulldog @ Jan 18 2008, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, should we be paying some high school students who play sports, too, because that Friday night gate can be pretty hefty for a big match-up.


Are you selling high school jerseys and changing the number every year based on who is wearing that jersey?

#17 WONBulldog

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 04:17 PM

Fans want a jersey of their favorite player. If the numbers change, so be it. I know you could buy numbers of lesser known players if you desired, as well.

Although I was talking more about the funds brought in at the gate of a particular game. I can imagine Terrelle Pryor would LOVE some of the gate monies brought in when people would travel just to see him play. And hey, lil' Johnny who never saw the field other than when special teams played might want to stake a claim to some of the gate brought in when his parents or relatives came to the game ONLY to see him play. And some of those big hoodies with numbers of high school players on back can be personalized and such.

I mean, arguments can be made basically anyway you like on this topic. In the end though, all levels of athletics have potential to bring in money. And do you pay the players that walk-on and never see the field? Nobody is buying their jersey unless they are a relative. Which, in turn, sends you back to lil' Johnny who has relatives at a game only to see him run down the field 6 times a game on special teams.
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#18 Coach Normous

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE(WONBulldog @ Jan 18 2008, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fans want a jersey of their favorite player. If the numbers change, so be it. I know you could buy numbers of lesser known players if you desired, as well.

Although I was talking more about the funds brought in at the gate of a particular game. I can imagine Terrelle Pryor would LOVE some of the gate monies brought in when people would travel just to see him play. And hey, lil' Johnny who never saw the field other than when special teams played might want to stake a claim to some of the gate brought in when his parents or relatives came to the game ONLY to see him play. And some of those big hoodies with numbers of high school players on back can be personalized and such.

I mean, arguments can be made basically anyway you like on this topic. In the end though, all levels of athletics have potential to bring in money. And do you pay the players that walk-on and never see the field? Nobody is buying their jersey unless they are a relative. Which, in turn, sends you back to lil' Johnny who has relatives at a game only to see him run down the field 6 times a game on special teams.


Because gate revenue will be there regardless of who is playing in most cases, I would suggest giving each plyer a cut of all apparel that bears his likeness (T-shirts and jerseys basically.) Lil' Johnny would not get a cut if his jerseys were not able to be purchased, but that is capitalism.

#19 WONBulldog

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 12:37 PM

QUOTE(Coach Normous @ Jan 18 2008, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because gate revenue will be there regardless of who is playing in most cases, I would suggest giving each plyer a cut of all apparel that bears his likeness (T-shirts and jerseys basically.) Lil' Johnny would not get a cut if his jerseys were not able to be purchased, but that is capitalism.


But there is bonus revenue because that kid is playing because the relatives wouldn't come to the game if he wasn't. Similar to different jersey numbers for Ohio State selling better because a certain person is wearing them. So, each individual brings in different levels of interest from different folks, which amounts to revenue for the school (high school or college). Its a slippery slope that can't be walked effectively enough to allow for college athletes to get paid.
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#20 Coach Normous

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 10:59 PM

QUOTE(WONBulldog @ Jan 19 2008, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But there is bonus revenue because that kid is playing because the relatives wouldn't come to the game if he wasn't. Similar to different jersey numbers for Ohio State selling better because a certain person is wearing them. So, each individual brings in different levels of interest from different folks, which amounts to revenue for the school (high school or college). Its a slippery slope that can't be walked effectively enough to allow for college athletes to get paid.


Are you talking about high school and your beloved Polar Bears? How did they do today by the way up in Alliance? I am talking D1 only. O-state games are sold out regardless of whose relatives will attend. It is not a slippery slope in my opinion. The athletes are being exploited in jersey sales, not ticket sales. JERSEY SALES ONLY.







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