74 replies to this topic

[Maltese Falcon]

I have noticed over the past 6-7 years that crowd sizes at boys high school basketball games have been decreasing. But over the past couple years these numbers have gone waaaaayyyy down. I watch recent highlights of games on WOSN 44 and some of these places are well less than half full. I know back in the 80's and 90's was a long time ago, but back in those days you normally had big crowds at games in the Northwest Ohio and some games would even be sold out. I would challenge you to find me a game the past 2 years in NW Ohio that has been sold out. Places known for hoops, such as Kalida, OG, Lima, Van Wert, Delphos SJ, Wayne Trace, Continental, etc. are barely half full and the fans that are there are very old.

What gives?

[Colt45]

At Elida this crowds are pretty good the place is usually 2/3 or 3/4 full.

A reason could be all the radio stations are picking up more and more games each year

[Maltese Falcon]

Colt45, on 13 January 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

At Elida this crowds are pretty good the place is usually 2/3 or 3/4 full.

A reason could be all the radio stations are picking up more and more games each year

I will give you that, Dakota Mathias alone brings people to the field house for many games.

Back in 1997 OG and Elida played at the fieldhouse, a WBL title on the line..........OG was 15-1, not sure what Elida's record was, but the bulldogs were good........there were people sitting in the top row on both sides.

Another example is the 1999 Elida- Lima Sr. matchup at the field house. The place was absolutely packed before halftime of the JV game ( i know, I was there). You will not see this again.

[FlightCrew]

Costs, games during the week, crappy talent/skill level...

[NWbballfan]

I always love the atmosphere in tournament time at the elida Fieldhouse with kalida/continental those teams usually pack the house full for such small schools

[Maltese Falcon]

FlightCrew, on 13 January 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

Costs, games during the week, crappy talent/skill level...

The price of a ticket to a HS basketball game has not changed in the past 10 years, $5-6.00. Concessions are still dirt cheap, .50 cent popcorn, $1 pops......this is way less than you would pay for concessions anywhere else, BUT, I know HS basketball fans and they are not there for the concessions, they are there for the basketball and the level of play has fallen..........but is that it?

games during the week have always been low attendance, but the weekend games are still suffering.

[Colt45]

Maltese Falcon, on 13 January 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

I will give you that, Dakota Mathias alone brings people to the field house for many games.

Back in 1997 OG and Elida played at the fieldhouse, a WBL title on the line..........OG was 15-1, not sure what Elida's record was, but the bulldogs were good........there were people sitting in the top row on both sides.

Another example is the 1999 Elida- Lima Sr. matchup at the field house. The place was absolutely packed before halftime of the JV game ( i know, I was there). You will not see this again.

Against Lima Senior 3 or 4 years ago the place was packed to the top too. There was probably about 30 seats left and they game lived up to the hype too.

[FlightCrew]

People leaving the area for jobs? Kids are going off to college and not coming back or are leaving to find work. All of the schools are losing enrollment due to smaller families and the aforementioned population shift. That said, it's not just a NW Ohio problem cause the tourney game numbers are way down too.

[Maltese Falcon]

FlightCrew, on 13 January 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

People leaving the area for jobs? Kids are going off to college and not coming back or are leaving to find work. All of the schools are losing enrollment due to smaller families and the aforementioned population shift. That said, it's not just a NW Ohio problem cause the tourney game numbers are way down too.

That explains why the average age of many fans at most HS basketball games is around 50-70 years old. These folks are the ones who packed gyms 20-30 years ago, but many have died off or just can't get to games anymore....and there is no one to replace them.

[Teddy Malone]

I was going to post what FlightCrew said. I love seeing the old dudes at games. Those guys are the real supporters, their kids are grown and they aren't there just to watch their family, they just want to watch some sports.

[BlueBuckIjays]

I said this to my dad a few years ago. Noticed a lot of games on WOSN/WTLW have crowds that have a lot of empty seats. People being able to watch the replays and hearing more games on the radio might be part of it. Also mentioned before with computers and everything the kids have a lot more to do than we did back then. Also is it maybe less school spirit now than then? Less kids in school of course mean less in the student section at games but is some of it apathy from some students toward the athletes? Maybe animosity is a better word since athletes get all the attention. Individualism is really stressed now so maybe the student body doesn't identify with the sports teams like we did.

Edited by BlueBuckIjays, 14 January 2014 - 02:59 AM.

[Common Sense]

We have been spoiled in northwest ohio with the rabid crowds for high school basketball. This is really nothing new with other parts of the state, and especially the larger schools. I don't feel radio broadcasts or television replays have anything do to with it. On thing that has not been mentioned is that slowly over time, the social aspect of going to games has gone away. Today, with facebook, twitter, texting, recent grads and young families don't have to go to games to socialize. There seems to be a trend that is not "cool" to go to your local high schools athletic events. Teams are smaller and thus, the crowds are smaller. You used to have full varsity, JV and freshman teams with 10-12 kids on each team, that's 30-40 kids in your basketball program whose parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles go to the games. You figure out of those 30 kids if 25 or more had 3-4 people from each family come to the game for them, that 80-100 people directly from the team.

[Dman]

It is a bygone era. High school sports are no longer socially celebrated. People have "more important" things to do. We have had multiple generations of kids who had fathers who never bothered to bring them to a game. I, for example, never missed ANY basketball or football game from kindergarten on... My dad made sure of it. That is just what we did on Friday/Saturday/Tuesday evenings. We went to eat, and we went to the game...whether home or away.

Those kids who have never been afforded the opportunity to go to these games as children...are now parents who don't have any tradition of supporting the local teams...because it was never stressed to them as children. Movies, television, drinking, etc are more important than a high school sports event.

In many communities the star athlete and/or coach are actually derided. We see that on here all the time. For example...I'm laughing at the current "fire Kill" discussion where Best is now held up as the gold standard of the superior coach. I've been around here long enough to remember the threads where Best was considered outdated. Heck I remember them saying the same thing about Seg. Somewhere in the past 25 years it has become acceptable to criticise and deride SUCCESS. Good people, coaches, and players who care and work hard at their craft are criticised for being successful. There have always been "haters." But these days, in many communities the "haters" are the popular bunch. It is COOL to not attend games. It is COOL to drink and party, etc. Those kids who bother to show up and support their school are not typically from the "in" crowd.

The reason that the people attending games are older is that they are remnants of a different generation where success, loyalty, spirit, etc were concepts to be celebrated. The star player/coach were RESPECTED for their work and abilities. These concepts are no longer deemed worthy of respect among the masses.

I could give a political theory as to why this as happened...but I don't have the time or desire. Suffice to say...it is what it is. Those who actually stress and admire the pursuit of excellence, teamwork, etc are the minority. We show up to the games. We usually have very good seats! We also tend to be the dominant personalities on the RC...though I believe almost all of us know we are a dying breed.

Edited by Dman, 14 January 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Maltese Falcon]

Dman, on 14 January 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

It is a bygone era. High school sports are no longer socially celebrated. People have "more important" things to do. We have had multiple generations of kids who had fathers who never bothered to bring them to a game. I, for example, never missed ANY basketball or football game from kindergarten on... My dad made sure of it. That is just what we did on Friday/Saturday/Tuesday evenings. We went to eat, and we went to the game...whether home or away.

Those kids who have never been afforded the opportunity to go to these games as children...are now parents who don't have any tradition of supporting the local teams...because it was never stressed to them as children. Movies, television, drinking, etc are more important than a high school sports event.

In many communities the star athlete and/or coach are actually derided. We see that on here all the time. For example...I'm laughing at the current "fire Kill" discussion where Best is now held up as the gold standard of the superior coach. I've been around here long enough to remember the threads where Best was considered outdated. Heck I remember them saying the same thing about Seg. Somewhere in the past 25 years it has become acceptable to criticise and deride SUCCESS. Good people, coaches, and players who care and work hard at their craft are criticised for being successful. There have always been "haters." But these days, in many communities the "haters" are the popular bunch. It is COOL to not attend games. It is COOL to drink and party, etc. Those kids who bother to show up and support their school are not typically from the "in" crowd.

The reason that the people attending games are older is that they are remnants of a different generation where success, loyalty, spirit, etc were concepts to be celebrated. The star player/coach were RESPECTED for their work and abilities. These concepts are no longer deemed worthy of respect among the masses.

I could give a political theory as to why this as happened...but I don't have the time or desire. Suffice to say...it is what it is. Those who actually stress and admire the pursuit of excellence, teamwork, etc are the minority. We show up to the games. We usually have very good seats! We also tend to be the dominant personalities on the RC...though I believe almost all of us know we are a dying breed.

+1

Some good (and kinda sad) responses overall.

[BlueBuckIjays]

Dman, on 14 January 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

It is a bygone era. High school sports are no longer socially celebrated. People have "more important" things to do. We have had multiple generations of kids who had fathers who never bothered to bring them to a game. I, for example, never missed ANY basketball or football game from kindergarten on... My dad made sure of it. That is just what we did on Friday/Saturday/Tuesday evenings. We went to eat, and we went to the game...whether home or away.

Those kids who have never been afforded the opportunity to go to these games as children...are now parents who don't have any tradition of supporting the local teams...because it was never stressed to them as children. Movies, television, drinking, etc are more important than a high school sports event.

In many communities the star athlete and/or coach are actually derided. We see that on here all the time. For example...I'm laughing at the current "fire Kill" discussion where Best is now held up as the gold standard of the superior coach. I've been around here long enough to remember the threads where Best was considered outdated. Heck I remember them saying the same thing about Seg. Somewhere in the past 25 years it has become acceptable to criticise and deride SUCCESS. Good people, coaches, and players who care and work hard at their craft are criticised for being successful. There have always been "haters." But these days, in many communities the "haters" are the popular bunch. It is COOL to not attend games. It is COOL to drink and party, etc. Those kids who bother to show up and support their school are not typically from the "in" crowd.

The reason that the people attending games are older is that they are remnants of a different generation where success, loyalty, spirit, etc were concepts to be celebrated. The star player/coach were RESPECTED for their work and abilities. These concepts are no longer deemed worthy of respect among the masses.

I could give a political theory as to why this as happened...but I don't have the time or desire. Suffice to say...it is what it is. Those who actually stress and admire the pursuit of excellence, teamwork, etc are the minority. We show up to the games. We usually have very good seats! We also tend to be the dominant personalities on the RC...though I believe almost all of us know we are a dying breed.

[BlueBuckIjays]

Yes Dman this is kind of what I was trying to say. "Let Freedom Ring" :-)

[Dakota Green]

There is no doubt that high school basketball attendance is down and the remark about most of the fans that go are senior citizens from 55 to 80 plus years old is true. I have said in the past that a lot of the reasons for this is the number of choices that are out there to do as far as leisure fun activities. I think basketball high school wise has suffered because of all the televised games that are on. People unless they have a vested interest in the game (son or daughter or grandchild) playing, they would rather just turn on the TV in their game room in their house that they just had built and have a huge mortgage on. So it basically is a question of economics. Loyalty towards a school is not what it used to be and sometimes people still have an ax to grind towards a coach who they feel didn't treat their son or daughter fairly. Seriously I see a day that some high schools will not have a basketball team because of apathy. Its sad, but a lot of people just do not have the passion to follow a high school team.

[Dman]

Green:

You are describing the "me" phenomenon. Parents care more about themselves than their children's success, etc. There are good young athletes in every community who never develop because mom and dad (when both are actually in the home) don't have the "time" to take their kid to practice. Who has not heard "they practice too much?" Or "let these kids have a life outside sports."

When I hear this stuff...I automatically assume we have a mother/father more invested in their home entertainment system than their kids. Most of the time I assume correct.

There was a time that society frowned on deadbeat parents. Now we make excuses for, or actually celebrate their apathy.

How many fathers you see shooting baskets with their kids? Smacking ground balls, etc...?

Those fathers that do are often derided by the majority deadbeats for "pushing their kid too hard."

Society is ass backwards in my opinion. When daddy would rather watch his hi def than throw a ball with his kid...OR take him to the field to watch a game... Daddy is a selfish prick.

More people in the general society will take issue with my preceding paragraph than daddy sitting on his ass.

That is the real reason the stands are empty...

[paperboy]

Dman, on 14 January 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

You are describing the "me" phenomenon. Parents care more about themselves than their children's success, etc. There are good young athletes in every community who never develop because mom and dad (when both are actually in the home) don't have the "time" to take their kid to practice. Who has not heard "they practice too much?" Or "let these kids have a life outside sports."

When I hear this stuff...I automatically assume we have a mother/father more invested in their home entertainment system than their kids. Most of the time I assume correct.

My but you do have a gift for hyperbole, lol. How do you know that you assume 'correct' [sic]? Do you do some background checking on these 'deadbeats'?

[FlightCrew]

Sounds all well and good dman but you can't blame the poor play on dad's not working with their kids. The kids need to want it and go outside or to the gym and work for hours and hours on their own. I could go out and shoot and dribble with my kid for 2 hours every night but if he doesn't find a buddy to work with for more time than that, then he is not gonna be much of a player.