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Boy's State Tournament Attendance 2017


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#21 Bobby

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 04:46 PM

View Postwaterloowonder, on 26 March 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

At least they are thinking about it. Transfers are only part of the problem. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is big city private schools being able to attract players from large population areas and playing in D3 and D4.

Don't think it's just big city private schools. Berlin Hiland won back to back boys basketball state titles on the back of a transfer. Their girls have the reputation of transfers, too. Columbus Grove lost to a South Webster team that had the starting point guard of the previous year's Div II state runner-up. This happens way more than you know. They just don't get the attention that private schools do.


#22 Hagen

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:22 AM

View Postwaterloowonder, on 26 March 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

... The biggest issue, in my opinion, is big city private schools being able to attract players from large population areas and playing in D3 and D4.

View PostBobby, on 26 March 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Don't think it's just big city private schools. Berlin Hiland won back to back boys basketball state titles on the back of a transfer. Their girls have the reputation of transfers, too. Columbus Grove lost to a South Webster team that had the starting point guard of the previous year's Div II state runner-up. This happens way more than you know. They just don't get the attention that private schools do.

Agreed with Bobby. See any small-/mid-tiered school that's within an easy drive from a larger public school. Prime examples of this are Findlay and Liberty-Benton, and Mansfield and Ontario. Whether open-enrollment or transferring, players will move to play for a good school to get recognized. Why be part of a building project team when they can win right away with an already-established program?

Edited by Hagen, 27 March 2017 - 07:27 AM.


#23 Hagen

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:28 AM

View PostEricles, on 26 March 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

So why is a public school with state-wide open enrollment OK, but a private school is not?
There are schools like Hopewell-Loudon and Colonel Crawford that have a high open-enrollment percentage. Without that, would they compete at the levels they already do? Many of those students go there in the early grades, so it's not as noticed. However, it definitely has a positive effect on those schools.

#24 Hagen

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:31 AM

View PostOutspoken, on 26 March 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

... I think maybe my idea of 4 public and 2 private divisions could be tweaked to 3 public (like it used to be with AAA, AA, and A) and 2 private could work. You would only be looking at 1 extra division now and add only 3 more games to State Tourney. So 15 games.......3 games Wednesday......all semis. 4 games Thursday.......all semis. 4 games Friday.....3 semis and the latest game (4th game) a final and then 4 finals on Saturday. Would that be too much? What about utilizing 2 sites? Nationwide and Value City or St John and Value City? Just rotate divisions and sites over the years? ...

I don't hate the idea of 3 public and 2 private divisions. Other states already have a similar split. I think there has to be two private divisions though. Don't want CincyX and St. Iggy in with Delphos St. Johns and Fostoria St. Wendelin. Actually, this would generate more money for the OHSAA if anything. Would add more games to the higher-ticket-priced games and would bring more public school crowds for their three divisions. I'm on board for this.

As far as rotating sites, they could use St. John's and The Schott at the same time. Walking distance between both.

Edited by Hagen, 27 March 2017 - 07:42 AM.


#25 waterloowonder

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:44 AM

View PostHagen, on 27 March 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

Agreed with Bobby. See any small-/mid-tiered school that's within an easy drive from a larger public school. Prime examples of this are Findlay and Liberty-Benton, and Mansfield and Ontario. Whether open-enrollment or transferring, players will move to play for a good school to get recognized. Why be part of a building project team when they can win right away with an already-established program?

Agree with all your comments. It all just sucks... Privates are just much better at it and have more advantages with larger population areas. I don't think there is a perfect answer. I would hate to see kids that actually relocate to a new school district for a legitimate family move decision not based on sports being ineligible for sports for 1 year. I'm just sick of seeing these big city privates playing in Cbus every year. We all know they put these teams together behind the scenes in the off season for the purpose finding a way to win. There is no way public schools in our area can ever compete with this.

#26 Maltese Falcon

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:53 AM

Here is an easy and quick fix that could help eliminate mass transfers. One kid transferring for the right reasons is not the problem, it is 3-5 players that make up a vast amount of a team's rotation that kills competitive balance, IMO.

Anyway: if you transfer you can play from game 1 up until Jan. 31, then you are done. That way you get 2 months of reg. season basketball if you want colleges to see you (though most colleges do their evaluations on the summer AAU circuit). Also, coaches will be able to find a new rotation during Feb. and into the tournament. Coaches that recruit would hate this rule, thereby hopefully eliminating them from attracting transfers.

#27 Hound Dog

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 10:33 AM

Private schools should play at the same level of the public schools in which they are located. Example would be LCC is in Shawnee so they would be D2. St.Johns is in Delphos so they would be D3. Wellington I'm assuming would be D1, etc.
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#28 Sports Fanatic

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 04:34 PM

Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I don't see anything wrong with private schools doing what they're doing. In these cases, it helps everyone directly involved. It helps the kids get a better education and the ability to be seen by more people. It helps the parents because they won't have to worry about losing their kids to the "wrong crowd" and it obviously helps the schools with their athletic success. Anyone that has family in a larger city will tell you private schools are the way to go in regards to academics and athletics. I don't have kids yet, but when I do, there's a very high likelihood they will be going to private schools when they reach that age. Only way that changes is if the world and society goes back to where it used to be, which is highly unlikely.



#29 Bobby

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 05:56 PM

View PostHound Dog, on 27 March 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Private schools should play at the same level of the public schools in which they are located. Example would be LCC is in Shawnee so they would be D2. St.Johns is in Delphos so they would be D3. Wellington I'm assuming would be D1, etc.

Is Temple Christian school in Lima? They would be Div I? Fremont Div I = Fremont St. Joe Div I. Sandusky Div 2 = Sandusky St. Marys Div 2. Fostoria Div 2 = Fostoria St. Wendelin Div 2. Great idea!!

#30 General Tso

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 06:12 PM

View PostBobby, on 27 March 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

Is Temple Christian school in Lima? They would be Div I? Fremont Div I = Fremont St. Joe Div I. Sandusky Div 2 = Sandusky St. Marys Div 2. Fostoria Div 2 = Fostoria St. Wendelin Div 2. Great idea!!
I believe Temple is in the Elida School District so they would be Div. II. Let me know if I'm wrong. I'm from Continental so my geography maybe off a tad bit.

Edited by General Tso, 27 March 2017 - 06:12 PM.


#31 Bobby

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:14 PM

View PostGeneral Tso, on 27 March 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

I believe Temple is in the Elida School District so they would be Div. II. Let me know if I'm wrong. I'm from Continental so my geography maybe off a tad bit.

That would have been my second thought. Not sure but you're probably right. Even so, Temple Christian with about 40 boys in the school would be playing Elida, OG, Shawnee, etc... in the tournament.

#32 General Tso

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:39 PM

View PostBobby, on 27 March 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

That would have been my second thought. Not sure but you're probably right. Even so, Temple Christian with about 40 boys in the school would be playing Elida, OG, Shawnee, etc... in the tournament.
A couple of years back Temple beat Elida, Shawnee, etc in boys soccer. I guess Temple couldn't compete in the sports that you actually have to have athletes to win.

#33 Hound Dog

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:59 PM

View PostBobby, on 27 March 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:



Is Temple Christian school in Lima? They would be Div I? Fremont Div I = Fremont St. Joe Div I. Sandusky Div 2 = Sandusky St. Marys Div 2. Fostoria Div 2 = Fostoria St. Wendelin Div 2. Great idea!!

It wouldn't be perfect by anymeans. But those kids that go to the private schools are there for the education anyways.

For schools that link to recruit players it would definitely level the playing field some and make it harder to win titles.

This years's D4 tournament was ridiculous. You would be hard pressed to match the talent on those finals teams with small public school. Especially in Northwest Ohio.
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#34 waterloowonder

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 07:41 AM

View PostSports Fanatic, on 27 March 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I don't see anything wrong with private schools doing what they're doing. In these cases, it helps everyone directly involved. It helps the kids get a better education and the ability to be seen by more people. It helps the parents because they won't have to worry about losing their kids to the "wrong crowd" and it obviously helps the schools with their athletic success. Anyone that has family in a larger city will tell you private schools are the way to go in regards to academics and athletics. I don't have kids yet, but when I do, there's a very high likelihood they will be going to private schools when they reach that age. Only way that changes is if the world and society goes back to where it used to be, which is highly unlikely.

I have no argument with your thoughts. I would do the same if I lived in a big city. My argument is these type of schools playing in smaller school divisions. They are obvious basketball factories that draw kids from a large area. That would be like Ft. Jennings going to Lima and Findlay to gather talent for their teams.

#35 Hagen

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 10:54 AM

View Postwaterloowonder, on 28 March 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

... That would be like Ft. Jennings going to Lima and Findlay to gather talent for their teams.
:pokey: Maybe FJ & Ottoville could consolidate & put together their students to become a large D4. Call it "Otto Jennings." It'd be the hip-sounding school. :thumbup1:

#36 General Tso

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 06:31 PM

View PostHagen, on 28 March 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:


:pokey: Maybe FJ & Ottoville could consolidate & put together their students to become a large D4. Call it "Otto Jennings." It'd be the hip-sounding school. :thumbup1:
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#37 Teddy Malone

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 10:47 PM

View PostSports Fanatic, on 27 March 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I don't see anything wrong with private schools doing what they're doing. In these cases, it helps everyone directly involved. It helps the kids get a better education and the ability to be seen by more people. It helps the parents because they won't have to worry about losing their kids to the "wrong crowd" and it obviously helps the schools with their athletic success. Anyone that has family in a larger city will tell you private schools are the way to go in regards to academics and athletics. I don't have kids yet, but when I do, there's a very high likelihood they will be going to private schools when they reach that age. Only way that changes is if the world and society goes back to where it used to be, which is highly unlikely.

It's also extremely unfair to smaller rural schools - public or private - where kids on teams grew up playing together and have no chance against all-star teams. Or even Division I schools like Findlay that are on an island and can't draw from the same population area as Cleveland or Cincinnati schools, or even Toledo, for those that are open enrollment. Why only look at it from large city perspective? There are all sorts of demographics and situations in the OHSAA and the little guy is trying to fight back.

#38 Hagen

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 07:07 AM

View PostGeneral Tso, on 28 March 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

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#39 Casual_fan

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:58 PM

View PostHagen, on 28 March 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:


:pokey: Maybe FJ & Ottoville could consolidate & put together their students to become a large D4. Call it "Otto Jennings." It'd be the hip-sounding school. :thumbup1:

Thats too masculin. Needs to be PC. Something like Jennyville.

#40 Ericles

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 05:22 PM

View PostHagen, on 27 March 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:



I don't hate the idea of 3 public and 2 private divisions. Other states already have a similar split. I think there has to be two private divisions though. Don't want CincyX and St. Iggy in with Delphos St. Johns and Fostoria St. Wendelin. Actually, this would generate more money for the OHSAA if anything. Would add more games to the higher-ticket-priced games and would bring more public school crowds for their three divisions. I'm on board for this.

As far as rotating sites, they could use St. John's and The Schott at the same time. Walking distance between both.

Hardly. This would kill attendance worse than it already is.







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