91 replies to this topic

[GreenMachine]

pokercat, on 30 March 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Wow..Just saw this for 1st time.. Pathetic Call.... Going that hard if he doesn't grab rim.he slams his head on the backboard.. A ref doing what they do a lot..(Decide close games)

I saw it live. looked like a good call to me. congrats to defiance. well disciplined and well coached! you did nw ohio proud.

[FlightCrew]

https://www.youtube....h?v=r2VkPbxfnKE

Are the college rules regarding dunking different?

[Bluetiger76]

FlightCrew, on 30 March 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

https://www.youtube....h?v=r2VkPbxfnKE

Are the college rules regarding dunking different?

nope, and its the same in the NBA (Rule 12A Section IV a.). It boils down to who wants to call the game per the rule book.

Edited by Bluetiger76, 30 March 2015 - 09:34 PM.

[Bluetiger76]

Here is a "T" in college, You just gotta find the guys that will rightfully call it:

https://www.youtube....h?v=-XRIqAXSYpo

Edited by Bluetiger76, 30 March 2015 - 09:44 PM.

[pokercat]

Pathetic call... Did you see Calipari even complain about the ND dunk....Nope.. Just as Defiance would not of complained if it wasn't called on CCC.. Just a ref wanting to get the attention IMO No dog in this fight either..

[Bluetiger76]

pokercat, on 30 March 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Pathetic call... Did you see Calipari even complain about the ND dunk....Nope.. Just as Defiance would not of complained if it wasn't called on CCC.. Just a ref wanting to get the attention IMO No dog in this fight either..

Poker, how is enforcing a rule a bad call. Its a bad rule (maybe), not a bad call.

[FlightCrew]

Forgot about Evan Turner breaking his back.

https://www.youtube....h?v=j87KEovOAWQ

[Bluetiger76]

FlightCrew, on 30 March 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

Forgot about Evan Turner breaking his back.

https://www.youtube....h?v=j87KEovOAWQ

OUCH!!!! never seen that one......

[dhsdawg06]

I've never understood the thought process behind calling something for 31 minutes(or 39 in college or 47 in the NBA) of a game, then NOT calling it in the final minute in the name of "letting them play." If it's a foul, it's a foul. If it breaks a rule, it breaks a rule. Call the game the same way for the entire game. If you're going to call it with 4:25 to go in the 2nd, then you need to call it all the way to the final buzzer.

It's unfortunate for CCC that it happened(and fortunate for us), but it is what it is. I could have bought hanging on an extra second to protect himself right until he not only pulled himself up, but came down beating his chest. And I don't mean in any way that disrespects the kid. He played a hell of a game, emotions were high, and he thought he just pretty much wrapped up a state title for his team. I can't say in the same spot I wouldn't have done the exact same (except any dunk attempt by me would have ended with the ball out of bounds and me lying flat on my face under the basket). But the fact is, the rules say that's a technical. Right call was made, Defiance knocks down the free throws, but even then they STILL had to go score and tie the game. They STILL had to go play the OT. A state title team regroups and gets a stop to end the game, or at the least comes out fired up in OT. Instead it seemed to take all the wind out of their sails while our kids were rejunivated by it. The more disciplined and composed team down the stretch found a way to win the game.

I'm extremely impressed with the way Central Catholic handled it though. Even Lillard pretty much said that while he disagreed with the call(and then tried to explain why he did it), they had plenty of other chances to win the game and didn't get it done. Don't forget they shot 8-15 from the line. They make just 2 more of those, we're not talking about this dunk, and they're state champs.

Edited by dhsdawg06, 30 March 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[FlightCrew]

What about in the case of a stud picking up his 4th foul? I don't wanna see that kid hit with his 5th foul on a ticky tack call do you?
What if that T the other day earns Lillard his 5th foul and he has to sit? I am of the opinion the officials need to discuss situation just as coaches and players do.

[Coach]

Too many people on this board that are pro Defiance.

Seeing the play the first time makes me think it was a terrible call. When you see the guy headed to the basket it would indicate that his momentum was going forward, and therefore would initiate a swing. He was not jumping straight up. Yes, it was a great win but the call in my mind was horrible.

[Bluetiger76]

dhsdawg06, on 30 March 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

I've never understood the thought process behind calling something for 31 minutes(or 39 in college or 47 in the NBA) of a game, then NOT calling it in the final minute in the name of "letting them play." If it's a foul, it's a foul.

But the fact is, the rules say that's a technical. Right call was made,

DHS....this is my whole point. Why do people not understand that this is "not" a bad call? If you want to say the rule is "bad or horrible", that is closer to the truth. The Cleveland Coach said in an interview as a basketball guy, he understands the call......I am pretty sure he is not "pro" Defiance. And for the record I am not as much pro Defiance as I am pro rule book.

GREAT JOB DEFIANCE!!

Edited by Bluetiger76, 31 March 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Odoyle]

Coach, on 31 March 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

Too many people on this board that are pro Defiance.

Seeing the play the first time makes me think it was a terrible call. When you see the guy headed to the basket it would indicate that his momentum was going forward, and therefore would initiate a swing. He was not jumping straight up. Yes, it was a great win but the call in my mind was horrible.

I think you mean the rule is horrible, because he clearly broke it. Again, watch his other dunks, specifically his 4th quarter fast break dunk to see what he should have done there.

[gulfstream4]

IMO This was a very bad call. Is 3 sec a rule ? YES It wasn't called one time all week. As a baseline official you are telling them to move out. During dead balls and timeouts you warn them. That in my opinion is what this warranted a Dead Ball or Timeout Warning.He gained No advantage by what he did. By rule the Coach is to stay in the coach's box ? Nobody called a technical last week for that ? It also is a clear rule

[GreenMachine]

gulfstream4, on 31 March 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

By rule the Coach is to stay in the coach's box ? Nobody called a technical last week for that ? It also is a clear rule

and straying farther away from the rule book makes it right? thats the justification for calling this a bad call? just say'n

Edited by GreenMachine, 31 March 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[Teddy Malone]

Coach, on 31 March 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

Too many people on this board that are pro Defiance.

Seeing the play the first time makes me think it was a terrible call. When you see the guy headed to the basket it would indicate that his momentum was going forward, and therefore would initiate a swing. He was not jumping straight up. Yes, it was a great win but the call in my mind was horrible.

He had at least one, maybe multiple dunks earlier where he didn't hang or swing on the rim. He chose to get emotional and showboat thinking he had won the game, blatantly breaking an official high school rule. I don't observe officiating in the big cities but around here in NW Ohio they call a technical every time a player swings so far that his legs go above his head.

[Common Sense]

I'll start my point with I cannot dunk, so I don't know what it's like. My perception is he's going straight at the rim, nearly full speed, I don't know how you dunk the ball and your momentum not swing your legs under the basket area. Remember, he's going nearly full speed, may be anticipating a defender or two to contest the shot at the rim, so you're going to dunk as quickly as possible. In my opinion, his momentum took his legs under the rim/ backboard and would have made it very dangerous for him to land on his feet if he lets go immediately after the dunk.
Also, he swung back only to get his balance to land on his feet, it was not anywhere near the dunks we see on TV in college and pro games, which is maybe a reason there is so much controversy.

Also, let's face it folks, first quarter, fourth quarter, you can say what you want, but games are officiated differently. I thought this was a poor call....at that point and time in the game....
There is 30 seconds, that hoop puts CCC up two possessions. The call, ensuing technical and being awarded the ball is a HUGE change to how the game was played the final seconds.

I think in that situation, the act would have be SO egregious that you would be forced to call something. In this instance, if a tech was not called, I don't think anyone would have said a word.

[Bluetiger76]

Teddy Malone, on 31 March 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

He had at least one, maybe multiple dunks earlier where he didn't hang or swing on the rim. He chose to get emotional and showboat thinking he had won the game, blatantly breaking an official high school rule. I don't observe officiating in the big cities but around here in NW Ohio they call a technical every time a player swings so far that his legs go above his head.

Good post Teddy...you are spot on brother.

[Bluetiger76]

Common Sense, on 31 March 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

The call, ensuing technical and being awarded the ball is a HUGE change to how the game was played the final seconds.

Yep... and infractions are infractions, regardless if its the beginning of the game or the end of the game. The Cleveland coach's response tells it all. If he is not arguing the point....why are others?

[veteranlefty]

ESPN had a link posted with the video and took a poll....I have not checked today but yesterday with 20,000 fans polled 78% thought it was a bad call. This is nationwide so the people had zero rooting interest. ESPN show Around the Horn also showed this and discussed it yesterday and famous columnist Bob Ryan said it was a brutal call the ref should have his license revoked....other national reporters on the show agreed with him. The kid did linger on the rim a bit but IMO I did not think it warranted a technical foul either. Nobody was harmed or in danger and I seriously doubt that any Defiance players took it as bad sportsmanship towards them. I just think to call that it has to be extremely excessive and I did not feel this merited such a call.