152 replies to this topic

[paperboy]

I didn't realize until now that the original article above was a game story and not the more incendiary article I read this morning...

http://www.tribune-c...s.html?nav=5025

[Dman]

That mighty North College Hill team competed in Div III too. Don't know about the Van Wert team.

But I can and will say AGAIN... There is anther proposal up for vote that addresses the privates and publics exactly the same. Those who want to point to "open enrollment" and "publics do it too" as deflection (moment to note that such observations are perfectly valid) no longer get to do so without showing their true colors. That ended last year with the first proposal. It is even more "fair" this year.

As for the assertion or deflection that status quo is some sort of "principled" stance...I'm anxiously awaiting someone to give a good defense of how and why North College Hill, SVSM, etc are good ambassadors to represent OHIO with their out-of-state players. I'm with the coach on this one.

What exactly are those principles that one represents defending the current system? It certainly isn't hard work, fairness, or any of the traditional principles one might think about... I'm honestly not trying to be a prick here. I'm sincerely interested in what those who support a team like SVSM representing Ohio basketball over a community like Poland can point to as their guiding principle?

I used to be able to least understand, while disagreeing, with those who defended status quo and the arguments they made to do so. With these competitive balance proposals I can't find a reasonable or believable defense of status quo other than "Hey...we benefit from the inequities available in the current system...so SCREW YOU! Does anyone have a valid concern that is not addressed via the competitive balance proposal that could possibly be used to show the real reason for a position AGAINST the proposal is other than selfish self-interest?

I admit there is a chance I'm off base here. But absent this mysterious principle... I dare say that I will assume that principle and self interest are mutually exclusive as it pertains to the way Ohio chooses it's high school basketball champions. The Competitive Balance Proposal has found a way to fairly treat publics and privates exactly the same while also attempting to place those teams who utilize the most advantageous border stretching methods in an appropriate bracket.

Then we wouldn't have to watch North College Hill, this year's entire Div III bracket, etc...and wonder if they could have competed at a higher level...where their talents, luck, and recruitment techniques, etc seem to indicate they belong.

[flounder]

I noticed that the privates are well represented in this year's state tournament........it is also good to see the 'Scarabs'(sp) from Cleveland East Tech back in Cbus.......it's been awhile!!!!!!

[Dman]

"One time I wish they had ... the coach, Dru Joyce ... come coach a team that you gotta work with rather than some AAU coach prepping all year long," Grisdale continued. "And then you stand out there and shake your head, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kiss my (butt)."

I'm sure he will get in trouble...but Grisdale is a freaking hero to so many who want to say EXACTLY what he did.

My favorite is when he calls the chicken*******s out for their fear of playing DIV I...


"I've taken it for 21 years," Grisdale said. "It isn't right. You look at my kids; they did everything we asked them to do all year. I don't know how they can justify (it). If they want to play, put them in Division I where they deserve to be. They can't win it there, so they don't want to go there. I don't know how the taxpayers in the state of Ohio, in the public school systems, how they deal with this. It's wrong."

[Bobby]

I have to see details on this proposal before I can determine if I think it's equitable. The devil is in the details as they say. BTW: Do you believe any of the last 2-3 proposals was fair? If they were not fair would it not have been principled to say No? Or do we vote for change just for the sake of change? From the results it was obvious many public schools voted against the last few proposals. Why did they vote against them? Why did MAC schools vote against them? And would you vote for separation?

I have not heard anyone say to vote no on this proposal and I haven't said that either. It might be the solution but I don't know yet. But this nonsense that this is solely a private school problem is ridiculous.

BTW: Where are the rants from coaches who lose to the public schools that have been listed in this topic? Where was the outcry when transfer Seger Bonifant led Berlin Hiland to back to back state titles? Did Troy Schwemly go off when South Webster, with a star transfer point guard, beat them in the state finals? Where are the complaints that Graham has won 14 wrestling state titles in a row?

[cs59]

Dman, on 16 March 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

"One time I wish they had ... the coach, Dru Joyce ... come coach a team that you gotta work with rather than some AAU coach prepping all year long," Grisdale continued. "And then you stand out there and shake your head, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kiss my (butt)."

I'm sure he will get in trouble...but Grisdale is a freaking hero to so many who want to say EXACTLY what he did.

My favorite is when he calls the chicken*******s out for their fear of playing DIV I...


"I've taken it for 21 years," Grisdale said. "It isn't right. You look at my kids; they did everything we asked them to do all year. I don't know how they can justify (it). If they want to play, put them in Division I where they deserve to be. They can't win it there, so they don't want to go there. I don't know how the taxpayers in the state of Ohio, in the public school systems, how they deal with this. It's wrong."

OHSAA should change their name to Ohio & Other States High School Athletic Association

[flounder]

I'm telling you right now........after reading Dru Joyce's comments....those guys don't give a crap at all.....most of those coaches that are getting these players in......whether private or public, just don't give a $hit......they all will keep doing it as long as they can and keep feeding their ego's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shotgun_Blues]

Rules are like locks... They keep the honest people honest. If your gonna cheat you'll find way

[Coach]

Put a sports recruiting levy on a ballot. This would give the parent a good job for 4 years and a house to live in! Even if you did this, could it offset SVSM Alumni's $$$$$$$$.

[paperboy]

Dman, on 16 March 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

"One time I wish they had ... the coach, Dru Joyce ... come coach a team that you gotta work with rather than some AAU coach prepping all year long," Grisdale continued. "And then you stand out there and shake your head, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kiss my (butt)."

I'm sure he will get in trouble...but Grisdale is a freaking hero to so many who want to say EXACTLY what he did.

It sure would be easier to think of Grisdale as a 'hero' if he had the guts to make those statements directly to Joyce rather than uttering them to a reporter.

Dman, on 16 March 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

My favorite is when he calls the chicken*******s out for their fear of playing DIV I...

Not sure why that would be a favorite considering SVSM doesn't have a choice as to where they play. Another cowardly comment by Grisdale, in my eyes.

[labatts69]

Bobby, on 16 March 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

BTW: Where are the rants from coaches who lose to the public schools that have been listed in this topic? Where was the outcry when transfer Seger Bonifant led Berlin Hiland to back to back state titles? Did Troy Schwemly go off when South Webster, with a star transfer point guard, beat them in the state finals? Where are the complaints that Graham has won 14 wrestling state titles in a row?

which one of homier's from continental would you like to hear? The one where we play the ineligible players from afri-cheatric or berlin move-in? Want to talk about getting the shaft both times down there to state.

[von]

labatts69, on 16 March 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

which one of homier's from continental would you like to hear? The one where we play the ineligible players from afri-cheatric or berlin move-in? Want to talk about getting the shaft both times down there to state.

Remember, Col. Afrocentric Nubians recruit, but don't get the paper work right sometimes. This a problem in every state, not just Ohio.

[Dman]

"But this nonsense that this is solely a private school problem is ridiculous. "

It is not 1985. The vast majority of folks that use this slight of hand argument are those who support status quo and the advantages they receive from the current system, but like to have a straw man to deflect criticism toward. The informed person realizes that both public and privates are happily gaming the system to be better basketball teams, while staying at the lowest possible classification to win their trophy.

I don't know where some get their information, but I can assure you that I myself, and many others here had some not so kind words for Hiland, Ada, Elida, South Webster, etc on this very forum...when these schools gained an advantage via boundary stretching...or eligibility stretching methods.

There is another fairness proposal that would treat ALL schools the same. We will see what happens this time.

P.S. While I'm certainly not privy to all the information, it is my understanding (complete hearsay)that exactly one MAC school voted against the proposal. I could be 100 percent wrong on this. So you have some sources for claiming most the MAC went against this? Or is that hearsay? This is not a trick question as I honestly don't know...and am interested if there is a public source to see how these schools came down on the issue.

[Dman]

"Not sure why that would be a favorite considering SVSM doesn't have a choice as to where they play."

How convenient it must be to vote against a proposal that would have bumped you up to DIV I and THEN feign you had no choice about which division you play in. Poor SVSM...those poor kids with their NBA practice facility and shiny new uniforms are being unfairly criticized, because they have "no choice" about which classification they end up in... LoL. I stand by my "chicken*******" comment. The best of the Tri-state AAU circuit is too scared to compete with the big boys. The definition fits.

[paperboy]

Dman, on 16 March 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

P.S. While I'm certainly not privy to all the information, it is my understanding (complete hearsay)that exactly one MAC school voted against the proposal. I could be 100 percent wrong on this. So you have some sources for claiming most the MAC went against this? Or is that hearsay? This is not a trick question as I honestly don't know...and am interested if there is a public source to see how these schools came down on the issue.

Here is a link to an article on MAC coaches and AD's takes on the situation. http://www.dailystan...osal-ends-today

While there is no definitive 'proof' as to which way they voted, each of the three are on record of being against the proposal. By the way, one of them (Parkway) certainly was voting on principle given that they have no selfish self-interest in keeping the status quo.

[mysteryman2014]

ADog, on 16 March 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

I can't offiially comfirm but reading other sites, 4 of the 5 starters moved with thier familes from WV and Pa, but live in Akron area now so guess it would be legit

WHat other sites i would like to read please

[caldwell]

Split them and see if the talent still wants to go to the private schools. My guess is that they will choose to stay home in their own school district.

[Bigdogg79]

paperboy, on 16 March 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

Here is a link to an article on MAC coaches and AD's takes on the situation. http://www.dailystan...osal-ends-today

While there is no definitive 'proof' as to which way they voted, each of the three are on record of being against the proposal. By the way, one of them (Parkway) certainly was voting on principle given that they have no selfish self-interest in keeping the status quo.

That article was before the second vote.

[Dman]

My bad for not being clear. Back in 2012 they had the tradition clause...which was definitely "out there." I was referring to last year's 2013 vote where that stuff was removed AND all public and private were treated exactly the same. This year's vote is actually beneficial to privates as they get to pick their feeder school location.

I don't believe the MAC voted against this proposal in any great numbers. In fact I believe it is the opposite. There is not one school in that conference this proposal doesn't help...including the one KNOWN school that voted against it. But regardless...the fact remains that there is opportunity for those who pretend to care about "competitive balance" to do something about it again.

The excuse from "private" supporters that the "publics do it too" ended last year with that proposal. While it may not pass again...it is a useful tool for pointing out hypocrisy...as some of us KNOW that the SVSM's/Northtown's of the world are happy to cheat their way to a trophy in the lowest possible classification...all the while pretending that they really care too...about competitive balance. They don't give two craps about competitive balance. They care about their own egos and will step on any person and any rule to get their trophy.

Then somebody else is left explaining to the Poland kids exactly why this happens. That is a tough explanation for ANYBODY to give.

[lima ball]

IF they split in a years the private schools will start to play an AAU type schedule and travel the country (early in the season) and surrounding states later in the season. Basketball may still be competitive, but the crowds will be way down at high school games because they are so boring to watch. You may still have some good small town/community basketball games but vey few of those kids will be playing in college after high school. Which allows kids now the opportunity to say remember when we played Lebron in the tournament and almost beat them. Or Roger Bacon who did beat them at state? that opportunity will be GONE, I bet many of the kids on that Roger Bacon team tell their story each time they watch him play and will be for many years to come. When Lebron is inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame one will be telling their grandkids, "when I was in high school we beat him for the state title."
The new story will be everyone I knew had a state title because people complained about how it wasn't fair that the same schools were good all the time, people thought they may have possibly recruited.