76 replies to this topic

[Maltese Falcon]

what about the 1999 team? I think Paulding won the NWC that year.

[Bobby]

roadtoC-town, on 08 March 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

If you don't believe the size of your school/the size of the population you draw from compared to ur competition is directly correlated with your success then you don't know math.

Are there outliers? yes--a good example on a bigger scale. Indiana HS talent vs Ohio HS talent. You would believe because Ohio is bigger they would put out more/better college BB recruits. Well they don't. But with most outliers there is a reason. Indiana puts a greater emphasis on BB while Ohio is more of a FB state.

That would be an interesting topic. I'd love to see some actual numbers on basketball recruits/players: Ohio vs. Indiana.

[roadtoC-town]

per Scout last 5 years
Indiana
6 5star
18 4star
46 3star


Ohio
2 5star
7 4star
49 3star

Edited by roadtoC-town, 08 March 2014 - 11:03 PM.

[FrogU]

So maybe we should just take say the top 20 enrollment schools for each division and play the tournament with them since only the biggest schools have a chance. I'm just sayin......

[roadtoC-town]

If that is what you took from the discussion FrogU then keep trolling.

[FrogU]

the way you bring the subject up in this thread makes it look like you are trolling

[roadtoC-town]

Trolling--
Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.

I fit one of those (the prick) but none of my post were cynical or sarcastic. While you and yours...............................

[Fourfather]

Maltese Falcon, on 08 March 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

what about the 1999 team? I think Paulding won the NWC that year.

Just cause you won the NWC doesn't make it the best team you've ever had.

[effingA]

C-town, some on here only deal in sarcasm...
I appreciated your numbers and feel, in general, the more your enrollment is the better chance you have in competing with and beating other schools that have smaller enrollment numbers. As you stated and as everyone knows, there are exceptions to this generality. Doesn't mean you didn't make a valid point. You even backed it up with numbers, shame on you for being factual!
(note the sarcasm)

[wingnut]

OG spent 11 years [1995-2005] as one of the smallest schools in D-2. They played in the regionals 7 times in that span. In the 16 years they have been a big D-3 [1988-1994] and [2006-2014] they got to the regionals about 6 times.

You could say they had more success when they were the little guy.

[dhsdawg06]

wingnut, on 09 March 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

OG spent 11 years [1995-2005] as one of the smallest schools in D-2. They played in the regionals 7 times in that span. In the 16 years they have been a big D-3 [1988-1994] and [2006-2014] they got to the regionals about 6 times.

You could say they had more success when they were the little guy.

Just curious. How many of those years were losses to either Wayne Trace or Archbold?

[BlueBuckIjays]

Sometimes tradition is enough to carry a teams to a win in a battle of evenly matched teams. These players see the teams before them succeed and when it comes to crunch time even though they may not be the most talented they find a way to win and believe they will win. And a school that hasn't had much success even though they might be slightly better team doubts themselves in crunch time.

[Fourfather]

BlueBuckIjays, on 09 March 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

Sometimes tradition is enough to carry a teams to a win in a battle of evenly matched teams. These players see the teams before them succeed and when it comes to crunch time even
though they may not be the most talented they find a way to win and believe they will win. And a school that hasn't had much success even
though they might be slightly better
team doubts themselves in crunch time.

Well said. That might be exactly what happened in this game.

[BlueBuckIjays]

effingA, on 08 March 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

C-town, some on here only deal in sarcasm...
I appreciated your numbers and feel, in general, the more your enrollment is the better chance you have in competing with and beating other schools that have smaller enrollment numbers. As you stated and as everyone knows, there are exceptions to this generality. Doesn't mean you didn't make a valid point. You even backed it up with numbers, shame on you for being factual!
(note the sarcasm)

But in basketball you only need a few good players. I mean you need a complete team but if a school emphasizes basketball and they have a few good players every year they can win even against schools that have 60 or 70 more kids, that's not that big of a difference for basketball. St. John's was small AA or big A for years back when it was A,AA, and AAA and they regularly competed with and beat much larger schools from Toledo, Dayton, Cincinnati, Ft. Wayne and that's not to mention the bigger WBL teams they routinely beat. OG plays a tough schedule every year but they've never played the the type of schedule DSJ played in a regular basis back in the 60's 70's and early 80's. And I'm not just talking big city schools from Columbus and Cincinnati and Dayton but state ranked big city schools, also teams like Newark. Like I said you just need a few good players, if your school has 60 or 70 more kids and they're not really into basketball then a smaller team can beat them. I mentioned that schedule in a preseason post in here. Those DSJ games against the Columbus Easts, Dayton Dunbar, Chaminade-Julienne, Toledo St. Francis, Toledo CC, Toledo Start, Cincinnati Aiken, Ft. Wayne Elmhurst we're fun but like I said I think sometimes they didn't really prepare St John's for the types of teams and style of play they would see come tourney time. Plus a few years I think they had so many big regular season games that they concentrated so much in all the big state ranked games and didn't really improve as season went in which would explain some of their premature tourney exits. Think DSJ football and OG basketball have proven the last couple years that you don't have to win every regular season game but as long as you improve you can go far in tournament no matter what your record. It all comes down to coaching and the players, and occasionally a bad referee :-) which from reading all the posts NW,Ohio doesn't have any bad referees.

Edited by BlueBuckIjays, 10 March 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[roadtoC-town]

Blue-great point on tradition. it doesn't happen every game but I have seen it pop up in crunch time.

wingnut--In those 7 years as Div II how many were with twins?

Blue--I agree on the what your community emphasizes. Indiana/Ohio BB talent is a great example.


Back to the game---I said before it started OG had to contain Paulding's shooter(#21). I believe its common sense to stop OG you have to contain their post(#31). OG used a box n 1 on #21. OG accomplished this Paulding didn't.

[General Tso]

Fourfather, on 08 March 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Has the quality of basketball in NWO really fallen to the level of what I saw today?

Yes

[FrogU]

So unless I am missing your point then Bath would be this years outlier.

Bath 214
Upper Sandusky 223
Kenton 238
Shawnee 288
St. Marys 293
Elida 292
Celina 327
Defiance 334
Wapak 343

Then I guess a reasonable question is why wasn't Celina or Wapak able to advance further with their larger "talent pool" to pull from.

[cs59]

wingnut, on 09 March 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

OG spent 11 years [1995-2005] as one of the smallest schools in D-2. They played in the regionals 7 times in that span. In the 16 years they have been a big D-3 [1988-1994] and [2006-2014] they got to the regionals about 6 times.

You could say they had more success when they were the little guy.

In 1996 O-G was runner up to Orrville [ 1 point loss ] at Columbus. Orrville was also a small Div2 team that year & is now Div3 too. The old saying about " It's not the size of the dog that counts, it's the size of the fight in the dog ". This applies to most sports & is the main reason for a lot of success.

[justin44]

Fourfather, on 08 March 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

So what should be done about this injustice?

Again. Allen East has a higher enrollment than Crestview. Bowling Green High School has double the enrollment of OG, and BG is terrible. Yet according to some BG should be twice as good as OG. You can't evaluate schools based on enrollment numbers.


I agree that there's a correlation with the enrollment numbers and success, but OG has been successful in both D2 and D3. I believe you can find examples to support both arguments.

Excellent point. Yes, we've been very fortunate to barely be in D3 last few years. We've also been fortunate to be in d2 some years, like the mid-90's when Archbold had the Roth kid @ we went to state in d2. I can only imagine the eyes rolling in St Marys & Elida when they see our score, but keep in mind we've also had some incredibly bad breaks/draws like the years when Akron St V somehow came to the NW regionals, so maybe this is our payback by the tournament bracket gods. For right now, life is quite good in D3, especially being in a district away from LB-LCC,.but that could change again in 2 years

[wingnut]

Wayne Trace knocked the Titans out of the tournament many times in the early 90's. Welch boys were pretty good. Don't know about Archbold.

The Titans had their best teams when they had a bigger enrollment.