106 replies to this topic

[roarintiger1]

Don't forget, on that second stint, Braidic had a son going thru the program........Coaches always work harder when their kids are involved.
From the outside looking in, Braidic had loads of talent to coach.....and some success. To say that it was State Championship talent might/is a stretch. There would've been many schools however, that would've taken him as their coach in a heartbeat.

Give the new guy a chance.....It's really hard to make something out of nothing.

[Common Sense]

Good coaches have good talent, you can't take unskilled kids and win. And you can't take unskilled kids and make them great in 4 months. Coaches have 10 days in the summer, but kids have all the free time they have. Point is you don't have to have organized work out sessions to work on your game. If kids just get together 3-4 times a week and play all summer, you'll notice a difference. And not just crap ball, but playing with some purpose. I've always liked open gyms with some former players who played "the right way", that's as valuable classroom as you can get. Most of the older guys are respected by the kids and would probably listen to them more than the coach.

[Dman]

The problem with a school like Pandora (and many others) is their kids don't really respect the game...or the older greats. It is a perpetual cycle of apathy.

It takes special kids to change such a culture. Kids across multiple classes. Great players don't just practice during the season. Everyone wants to win on game night. Most want to get better during the season. Those schools with a consistent winning basketball tradition have core players, in almost every class, committed to basketball as their primary love.

There is no tradition, expectations, etc in Pandora for the sport of basketball. Their parents don't have a clue the amount of time and effort those boys at Grove (for example) have put into their game. How would the Pandora kids be expected to know better?

Worse yet...kids/parents from communities like Pandora will resist any coach/parent who dares to challenge status quo by EXPECTING greater individual commitment from their kids. "Let them be kids." The coach "expects TOO much." We have all heard the excuses bantered from the parent/player who really wants to play...but is never going too put in the time and effort needed to be great.

I'm not even opining that the "coach expects too much" crowd is wrong. I'm just opining that when you let that attitude/culture ferment in a community like Pandora...you will never consistently compete with the Grove's, Kalida's, DSJ's of the world...where tradition and culture dictate that any self-respecting and aspiring elementary basketball player is already working on his/her game multiple times per week.

Winning and losing cultures are deeply engrained in the communities they represent. It is all but impossible to change a culture permanently. It can be done... But it is almost always a factor of luck and anomolous talent across multiple generations (see Grove circa late 90's to present day). Absent that... I dare opine that Coach K could never permanently turn Pandora into a basketball powerhouse. There are simply too many cultural factors too expect one person to change.

This is not a Pandora bash...as I honestly feel they are like the majority of small towns with respect to this phenomenon.

[Rocketman]

I've been here a long time............that was a great post!

[PG OSU Alum]

I believe that posts belongs in the rocketcorner HOF. Well said DMan!

[caldwell]

You DMAN!!!

[Common Sense]

Dman, great post. There is some tradition at PG, the die hards and parents of the players are going to go to games weather you win or lose. The connection is getting those "fringe" fans when times are good to consistently follow the team, even on the road. I think a hard working, exciting brand of basketball makes people want to come to games. Winning always gets them out, but if you are playing up to your potential, people will still support. Teams where there is constant bickering in the stands on who's playing and criticisms of the coaches drive people away like plague. Support your team, don't constantly criticize or feel that a group of kids who've never been .500 will suddenly win the league title?

[cropduster]

Dman, on 22 January 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

The problem with a school like Pandora (and many others) is their kids don't really respect the game...or the older greats. It is a perpetual cycle of apathy.

It takes special kids to change such a culture. Kids across multiple classes. Great players don't just practice during the season. Everyone wants to win on game night. Most want to get better during the season. Those schools with a consistent winning basketball tradition have core players, in almost every class, committed to basketball as their primary love.

There is no tradition, expectations, etc in Pandora for the sport of basketball. Their parents don't have a clue the amount of time and effort those boys at Grove (for example) have put into their game. How would the Pandora kids be expected to know better?

Worse yet...kids/parents from communities like Pandora will resist any coach/parent who dares to challenge status quo by EXPECTING greater individual commitment from their kids. "Let them be kids." The coach "expects TOO much." We have all heard the excuses bantered from the parent/player who really wants to play...but is never going too put in the time and effort needed to be great.

I'm not even opining that the "coach expects too much" crowd is wrong. I'm just opining that when you let that attitude/culture ferment in a community like Pandora...you will never consistently compete with the Grove's, Kalida's, DSJ's of the world...where tradition and culture dictate that any self-respecting and aspiring elementary basketball player is already working on his/her game multiple times per week.

Winning and losing cultures are deeply engrained in the communities they represent. It is all but impossible to change a culture permanently. It can be done... But it is almost always a factor of luck and anomolous talent across multiple generations (see Grove circa late 90's to present day). Absent that... I dare opine that Coach K could never permanently turn Pandora into a basketball powerhouse. There are simply too many cultural factors too expect one person to change.

This is not a Pandora bash...as I honestly feel they are like the majority of small towns with respect to this phenomenon.

Dman says it all in his name...this could be applied to every small school around today! Well said

Edited by cropduster, 23 January 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Maltese Falcon]

I have to say that PG should not run Smith out, unless they want to be like the Cleveland Browns. Bring in a guy to coach a team with very little talent and if things don't turn around in one year.........c'mon. This alone says it all.


Arcadia 51
Pandora -Gilboa 43

[hunt4em]

Maltese Falcon, on 24 January 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

This alone says it all.


Arcadia 51
Pandora -Gilboa 43

Out coached by a girl ????

[JohnMcClane]

hunt4em, on 25 January 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

Out coached by a girl ????

Are you saying Arcadia's coach could solve all of Pandora's problems. I don't think Mike Krzyzewski would meet the expectations of the Pandora parents at this point.

[Rocketman]

JohnnyQuest,

the Pandora parents don't have high expectations of their athletics.........
the Gilboa and Blanchard Twp. parents do expect a little more though....
since the 1950 consolidation it has been this way......so no, I wouldn't say
that our expectations are too high.....I would counter that they're too low....
certainly much lower than CG, Kalida, OG, Leipsic or any other area schools,
save but Cory Rawson...

[Maltese Falcon]

hunt4em, on 25 January 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

Out coached by a girl ????

The Pandora Gilboa players were outplayed by a team coached by a girl.

[mysteryman2014]

A good coach can take a below average team and make them above average.
He just needs to get the players to buy into his coaching style.
From what i hear Pandora parents are more horrible then the usual parent.
They are going to get what they give.
And by that i mean the support and help that is needed to build a winning program.
If i was the coach and i ahve seen this happen.
I would close practice to everyone except the coaches and players.
Also give the players a gag order by this a mean no negativity talk at all.
And if the parents are chewing at them for answers tell the parents (Respectfully) to stop.
Parents think wrong alot of times. Sometimes they think their son/daughter is better then what they really are then when they get to High School and either dont make the team or are coming off the bench, the parent then becomes an @$$ in every way possible.
Pandoras AD needs to step in and back the coach.
Give him a chance to Coach.

[RealDeal]

i have seen both teams play and given the talent level at both schools, I would say the coach at PG did a good job to keep the game competitive. I think Arcadia has some decent size/athletes. Another problem likely mentioned before on here is the fact that these schools and programs are small enough that kids can slack and not have to worry about getting beat out for a position by a younger kid, or if they have an attitude or don't work hard they face sitting on the bench or getting cut. Maybe if PG can increase numbers in the next few years the current coach will have more of a hammer. Hard to do in your first year.

I echo the idea to close practice to coaches and players but hard to do at some of these tiny places where you can only reach other rooms or locker rooms going thru the gym.

[mysteryman2014]

RealDeal, on 28 January 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

i have seen both teams play and given the talent level at both schools, I would say the coach at PG did a good job to keep the game competitive. I think Arcadia has some decent size/athletes. Another problem likely mentioned before on here is the fact that these schools and programs are small enough that kids can slack and not have to worry about getting beat out for a position by a younger kid, or if they have an attitude or don't work hard they face sitting on the bench or getting cut. Maybe if PG can increase numbers in the next few years the current coach will have more of a hammer. Hard to do in your first year.

I echo the idea to close practice to coaches and players but hard to do at some of these tiny places where you can only reach other rooms or locker rooms going thru the gym.

Well that would be to bad. Basketball practice is practice
guess they would have to walk around lol

[RealDeal]

mysteryman2014, on 28 January 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Well that would be to bad. Basketball practice is practice
guess they would have to walk around lol

I did have a coach that locked the gym doors during practice. You could then only access the locker rooms from the outside. IF someone got in or didn't know you weren't supposed to come into the gym he would rip them - including adults, something about I don't come in your place of work and interrupt you. That guy was nuts though, very similar approach as the Rutgers coach. We did win a lot of games.

[hunt4em]

Don't know any parent that goes to practice?? Where did you get that? Seems like a lot of stuff talked about doesn't even happen, where's this coming from. Go watch a game and see what really goes on.

[mysteryman2014]

Just saying with all these parents getting involved and running coaches out.
The new coach should pull a Coach Carter on them!!!

[Common Sense]

I don't know if this happened, but many of these items should be addressed at the pre season meeting. More importantly, you need to have key members in the community supporting programs. Negative comments (even if true) serve no purpose. As I said earlier, it's not a shock that PG is struggling this year. Even great coaches need some talent to be successful. Finally, Parents need to check themselves. Bad mouthing the coach is not productive. And kids just grab that information and run with it.