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Why are crowd sizes down?

way down

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#41 Dman

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:29 PM

View Postpaynepanthers, on 16 January 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

The "we" would be us who take the time to post on a high school sports message board (me included). Those who don't do that, would say that "we" are too focused on sports.

I understand payne. I agree with most of what you are saying.

Did you ever notice that the type of person who says "we are too focused on sports" don't seemed to be focused on anything that is not self-centered? It is not as if the stands are empty because parents are home studying with their kids Friday night. I'd applaud such an action if this were actually happening.

To focus on ANYTHING requires interest and effort for a parent. When I hear somebody denounce those parents/players who are actually exerting time and effort AT ANYTHING...I automatically assume we are talking about a modern self-centered parent. I'm right most of the time.
I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.

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#42 FlightCrew

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:09 PM

Viking87, My dad NEVER even rebounded for me. He threw the baseball with me when no one else would, but he never played hoops with me. And to my knowledge no dads in my neighborhood played hoops with their sons. We went out, on our own and played by ourselves or each other.

#43 Irish Viking 87

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:28 PM

View PostFlightCrew, on 16 January 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Viking87, My dad NEVER even rebounded for me. He threw the baseball with me when no one else would, but he never played hoops with me. And to my knowledge no dads in my neighborhood played hoops with their sons. We went out, on our own and played by ourselves or each other.
I'm not going to argue individual cases like you and your dad or the kids in your neighborhood. I'm saying that some parents in today's society don't take an active part in their kids lives. If more did, society as a whole, would be better off.

You obviously disagree with me, hence the negative point and your reply above. That's fine. This forum is about opinions and that is mine. People don't have to agree. Everyone has their own opinion. Your's is different than mine. So be it.

#44 paynepanthers

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 04:26 PM

Dman - Yes indeed.

#45 LimaJock

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 02:42 PM

This has been one of the most insightful topics ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone makes good points. Saying pretty much the same thing. Bottom line. Our society has declined. SOME people don't care, in fact, despise the success of others. Team sports is the sacrifice of the individual for the success of the group. There is a reason the MAC is dominating. They shouldn't. I contend they have no more raw talent than anyone else. But they get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are headed toward an European system where schools and sports are separate. This is being accomplished by me me parents and politicians who are no friends of public schools.

Enjoy what we had, currently have, and once had. It will be gone. THE PROPHET HAS SPOKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LJ
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#46 Common Sense

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:38 PM

You may be right LimaJock, but I think there is still enough of an educational reason for schools to keep sports, that it will be ok for awhile. One thing I don't like is that I do feel the affluent move to these club type sports to get away from the rif raff. People today spend thousands and thousands of dollars for their kid to have a "spot" on a club team/ AAU ball or other travel teams. Kids that are marginal and don't have money don't go that route. The elite poor kid gets a free ride and the affluent pay. When you start seeing kids skip high school sports to play club, then we've got a problem. Sadly, college coaches don't help as they encourage these kids to play club and specialize to get a better look at them.

#47 Ward

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:54 PM

View PostIrish Viking 87, on 16 January 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

I'm not going to argue individual cases like you and your dad or the kids in your neighborhood. I'm saying that some parents in today's society don't take an active part in their kids lives. If more did, society as a whole, would be better off.

You obviously disagree with me, hence the negative point and your reply above. That's fine. This forum is about opinions and that is mine. People don't have to agree. Everyone has their own opinion. Your's is different than mine. So be it.

I think what you said is true. I think it also is a reason why some kids don't go out for sports or why some eventually quit. Sometimes the parents just don't stay active in their kids lives in order to help the kid stay motivated or just simply get better in that sport. I'm not saying that they should force them to do anything, just at least try to stay motivated or get better rather than just give in to the kid who doesn't want to play. Because let's face it, kids can difficult choices at a young age and sometimes do not know better. Some may even regret their decision to quit a sport later on in life. I for example quit basketball my sophomore year but later on I realized I wish I would have stayed with it or had someone to help push me to stay. It goes a long with attendance too.

#48 Stewart Little

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:31 PM

Maybe someone on here has already touched on this, I didn't go back and read the whole thread, but I think crowd size is down largely to economics. Last week I dropped $48 to get my family into one girls' game and one boys' game. I did not go to the other 2 games because I would have dropped another $48 to get into those, not to mention another $10-$12 at each game just on concessions. Honestly the cost to see some average to below average basketball is not worth it to me. I can stay home and watch college basketball on my dish that I have already paid for. And the concessions at home are a little cheaper.

#49 BlueBuckIjays

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:38 PM

View PostDman, on 15 January 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:



You just nailed it. This is the prevailing attitude. I don't necessarily agree or like it, but I know this is true for the majority. Today it is not enough for a kid to make a team. The 8-10 guy on the bench is often disgruntled...as are his parents. These kids think that if they are not the star, then they are not important. The day of the parent saying the teacher/coach is always right is long gone. Instead the parents/kids take the 180 degree approach and BLAME the coach, belittle the program, etc for not making their "little johnny" the star he deserves to be.

High school sports, in many areas, are fueled by negative energy and tepid support. It is not just that these kids and adults don't show up and support these programs. They often actively undermine these programs. Good people/parents/coaches have been sullied by the entire process. They are often replaced with coaches/parents who do not have the kids' best interests at heart. It is a perpetual cycle of disappointment and negativity. High school sports are the Cleveland Browns.

I don't really mind that the attendance is down. I understand it. I do have a problem with the "negativity." I do have a problem when the kid who can drink a 12 pack faster than the rest is more celebrated than the kid who who runs faster on the track. I think we, in many schools/areas, have completely lost focus on what should be important. Excellence should be celebrated and admired.

Those who have been around here a while have probably read some of our threads about the "culture" of a school. The problem today is that the "culture" at the vast majority of public schools is a "loser" culture. It has not infected every kid/parent/coach, but it is certainly more prevalent than it was in the days that the stands were full. The athletes/coaches that succeed today often have to deal with a lot more "haters" than the kids/coaches used to have to endure. They certainly have to succeed with less community support. In terms of peer pressure, etc...it is often much more "cool" and accepted to QUIT the team (see Ottoville basketball when Turnwald arrived) than to work hard at one's craft.

I can't stomach this phenomenon...but I certainly see it with my own eyes...and realize that my worldview is not the majority worldview for the modern parent/player.

Empty stands are the least of the problems with high school sports. The day is coming when there won't be high school sports at all. Hopefully I'll be dead when it happens. Nothing makes me happier than watching these young athletes and the committed coaches succeed in such a negative environment. I couldn't do it. I'd go all Woody Hayes on the first parent that bitched about their kid's playing time!


#50 BlueBuckIjays

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:39 PM

Dman for president in 2016!

#51 LimaJock

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:54 PM

Its possible to get a basketball scholarship without playing hs basketball. AAU will be the executioner of hs sports. Not sure when, but mark it down, I will look like a prophet. Oh, I am one so just listen to what I'm saying. LJ
"I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong"

#52 erniefurgler

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:05 PM

After watching a few games on WOSN...this may sounds stupid, but are crowd sizes actually smaller or do all these new HS gyms make the crowds look smaller?? Anyone with any insight have legit input on this??

#53 Maltese Falcon

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:08 PM

View Posterniefurgler, on 27 January 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

After watching a few games on WOSN...this may sounds stupid, but are crowd sizes actually smaller or do all these new HS gyms make the crowds look smaller?? Anyone with any insight have legit input on this??

crowd sizes are smaller.......most WBL schools play in older gyms ( St. Marys, Van Wert exception) and the crowds are down.

#54 Ericles

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 12:53 AM

View PostDman, on 15 January 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:



You just nailed it. This is the prevailing attitude. I don't necessarily agree or like it, but I know this is true for the majority. Today it is not enough for a kid to make a team. The 8-10 guy on the bench is often disgruntled...as are his parents. These kids think that if they are not the star, then they are not important. The day of the parent saying the teacher/coach is always right is long gone. Instead the parents/kids take the 180 degree approach and BLAME the coach, belittle the program, etc for not making their "little johnny" the star he deserves to be.

High school sports, in many areas, are fueled by negative energy and tepid support. It is not just that these kids and adults don't show up and support these programs. They often actively undermine these programs. Good people/parents/coaches have been sullied by the entire process. They are often replaced with coaches/parents who do not have the kids' best interests at heart. It is a perpetual cycle of disappointment and negativity. High school sports are the Cleveland Browns.

I don't really mind that the attendance is down. I understand it. I do have a problem with the "negativity." I do have a problem when the kid who can drink a 12 pack faster than the rest is more celebrated than the kid who who runs faster on the track. I think we, in many schools/areas, have completely lost focus on what should be important. Excellence should be celebrated and admired.

Those who have been around here a while have probably read some of our threads about the "culture" of a school. The problem today is that the "culture" at the vast majority of public schools is a "loser" culture. It has not infected every kid/parent/coach, but it is certainly more prevalent than it was in the days that the stands were full. The athletes/coaches that succeed today often have to deal with a lot more "haters" than the kids/coaches used to have to endure. They certainly have to succeed with less community support. In terms of peer pressure, etc...it is often much more "cool" and accepted to QUIT the team (see Ottoville basketball when Turnwald arrived) than to work hard at one's craft.

I can't stomach this phenomenon...but I certainly see it with my own eyes...and realize that my worldview is not the majority worldview for the modern parent/player.

Empty stands are the least of the problems with high school sports. The day is coming when there won't be high school sports at all. Hopefully I'll be dead when it happens. Nothing makes me happier than watching these young athletes and the committed coaches succeed in such a negative environment. I couldn't do it. I'd go all Woody Hayes on the first parent that bitched about their kid's playing time!

This is a tremendous post on so many levels. You have a good understanding of high school athletics. Bravo.

The part that I highlighted is an issue that really bothers me. I am closely connected to my HS's girls team and I see it first hand. I think part of the problem is that this attitude is reinforced from the top down, so to speak. Instead of telling parents to "buzz off," administrators bend their ear to anyone who complains.

As far as attendance goes, I think that is largely due to the fact that there are so many other things to grab our attention. When I was in school 20 or so years ago, going to the football or basketball game was THE thing to do on Friday night - and there really wasn't much debate about it. Now kids stay at home with their video games, go to the movies, or in some cases go to a game at another school. It's sad and unfortunate.

#55 moe_ szyslak

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 01:04 PM

View PostStewart Little, on 27 January 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

Maybe someone on here has already touched on this, I didn't go back and read the whole thread, but I think crowd size is down largely to economics. Last week I dropped $48 to get my family into one girls' game and one boys' game. I did not go to the other 2 games because I would have dropped another $48 to get into those, not to mention another $10-$12 at each game just on concessions. Honestly the cost to see some average to below average basketball is not worth it to me. I can stay home and watch college basketball on my dish that I have already paid for. And the concessions at home are a little cheaper.

Here's what I don't understand... if attendance is down, why are ticket prices so high? Experiment with ticket sales, and see if lower ticket sales bring more people in. Last time I checked, selling 100 tickets @ $6 will bring in the same profit as selling 200 tickets @ $3.

#56 Common Sense

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 02:29 PM

View Postmoe_ szyslak, on 29 January 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Here's what I don't understand... if attendance is down, why are ticket prices so high? Experiment with ticket sales, and see if lower ticket sales bring more people in. Last time I checked, selling 100 tickets @ $6 will bring in the same profit as selling 200 tickets @ $3.
Moe, understand your thought, but the ticket price is the last thing that keeps people away. For all the frivolous things people spend their money on, $6 for a high school athletic event is very fair. Movies cost more, just about anything "entertaining" will set you back more. You'd probably get 100 people at $3 and cut your athletic revenue in half. The other think I've noticed is that those who complain about ticket prices are the ones who spend $10 a night at the concession stand. The other thing is if you go to your local school's events, pony up and get the sports pass and save yourself some money.

#57 CKalltheway

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:05 PM

Ticket prices hurt families,6 bucks is ok but 24 bucks for an average family starts to hurt, it's high school b ball game,it seems a little much sometimes.

#58 Coach

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:06 PM

Then you have the 50-50- draw. Don't forget the other organizations that are trying to sell things at the game. Cake raffle, seat cushions. etc.

#59 Teddy Malone

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:10 AM

I hope you guys don't go to any college or professional athletic events if you're going to complain about high school prices...

#60 CKalltheway

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:30 AM

Yes, l do try to avoid paying 20 bucks to park and 8 bucks a beer when ever possible, but that's just the way I am,as in,...not rich.







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