181 replies to this topic

[gamekeeper]

I think the part that is frustrating was he was clearly held back about 10 yards, but the contact in the end zone didn't seem to be anymore than what happens on pass plays all over the field. So defensive holding is not a spot foul I do not believe so the ball would have been placed further back, not on the one yard line.

What is really frustrating for me as everyone know besides we do not run the ball enough. We are ranked 8th overall in Defense but 31st in third down conversations on defense. We allow the teams to convert on third downs way to much especially in the red zone to help carry this team. Ravens and even the
steelers when they were trying to get their QB some experience and time, were able to carry the team. The panthers even. The Browns the last two weeks lost the game with their defense on the field.

[gamekeeper]

So the Browns get three turnovers, and score on two, and yet lost.

I am changing my mind. IF browns can't run even on the worse run defense in the NFL. Correction don't even attempt to run on the worse defense in the NFL, then it must mean that the O line needs upgraded and that needs to be addressed. Where's marty ball when you need it. YOu know what was good about Marty ball it worked in the winter and cold weather and when you had leads. YOU know what was bad about Marty ball the playoffs would be in warm weather or domes, and couldn't keep up scoring. Marty ball would have won today. Norv maybe a guru, but what the hec. The Browns run plays are all up the middle,and then screen the bears to death.

[Ward]

gamekeeper, on 15 December 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

I think the part that is frustrating was he was clearly held back about 10 yards, but the contact in the end zone didn't seem to be anymore than what happens on pass plays all over the field. So defensive holding is not a spot foul I do not believe so the ball would have been placed further back, not on the one yard line.

Ya I agree. Should have been at least a holding call on the 10 yard line which would have resulted in just a 5 yard penalty.

[fortfan]

Ward, on 13 December 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

I just find it funny that after the game, the only thing you complain about was that pass interference call.

Show me where I mentioned the pass interference call?

[Ward]

fortfan, on 10 December 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

No use posting anything when it would be nothing but asterisks. ******ing refs.

Well judging by this comment, I don't think you are upset at the refs for allowing the Patriots to recover that onside kick so I mean what else could it be?

[fortfan]

I, like oh maybe thousands of other Browns fans that post on message boards around, watched the game and wonder....when are the Browns going to get these breaks? Seemed like many times the Pats needed that extra yard to get a first down..but the ref gives them a nice spot and they get that first down. Chud challenged a couple of these and won-but I suppose his luck would have run out if he kept challenging them. Brady gets called for intentional grounding-but complains to the ref about it and they pick up the flag. Campbell throws a pass that would have been in the vicinity of the RB coming out of the backfield but the RB is shoved down by a Pats defender and they call THAT intentional grounding. Then the hit in the end zone that was flagged as unnecessary roughness or whatever they called seemed to be a totally legal hit, but it moved the kickoff 15 yards, putting the on-side kick recovery that much closer to the endzone.

None of these calls takes away the fact that they should have recovered the kick-but I never said they did.

Now-I am sure you will come back and dispute every one of these and call me a whiny Browns fan or something-I've heard it all-fire away.

[gamekeeper]

I won't call you a whiny fan fortfan, I will even agree with you on everything you posted. One thing I want to point out and I think this is important for the Browns. You have to create your own breaks. You have to have that star power to get that call. Elite players, elite teams may get the occasional call. But the BRowns keep putting themselves in situations that they are on that fence of success and failure and unfortunately they fail more often. The refs, don't miss blocks, don't drop passes, don't run wrong routes, or throw the bad passes. don't miss tackles on defense or grab a receiver on a 3 and 15 (and he clearly grab the receiver)to give The Bears a first down when they are penned back deep in
Browns territory. The refs did not let the Bears make make 9 for 14 on third downs.
You have to start making those 50/50 play. We also rushed for an average of 5 yards per carry with 97 yards on 17 attempts with the lead. With the lead the Browns chose to throw the ball, and only rush 17 times. Don't know about you but unless you are converting in bounds every throw you are stopping the clock on incompletes, and taking chances of interceptions, and just plain having to punt after running only a 1:00 or two off the clock.

The Browns need to start playing like a team that can win instead of a team playing like we don't won't to lose period, and stop shooting themselves in the foot. We can all look at the few ref calls that has not helped, but I can look at more plays they did not make and should have made that hurt them more and put them in that position for the ref to make that judgement call most of us didn't agree with.

Edited by gamekeeper, 18 December 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[gamekeeper]

Secondly, The Browns QB position has been a problem. But I was thinking, Other than Graham who has been a great QB, an elite one. Bernie Kosar was from 1985 to 1993. Brian Sipe before that. After that who has been of any franchise type guy.

[Ward]

Ok fortfan, first off you need to stop being so sensitive on here. You act like nobody is allowed to disagree with you which let me remind you in case you forget what this website is all about, you will get a lot of disagreements on here. I'm not targetting you, just have a different opinion than you and that is perfectly fine. So again instead of acting like I dispute everything you say (which let me also remind you was only 2 topics) just make your point and move on.

At least gamekeeper is being objective and holding his team accountable for the things they did or did not do. Instead you try to go back into the game and say what Brady and the Pats got away with which is just your biased opinion. The Browns lost this game bud, get over it. And they lost that game because the Pats won it, not the officials.

[FearTheElf!!]

I like Edwin Baker and Josh Cooper. That is all.......

[fortfan]

FearTheElf!!, on 23 December 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I like Edwin Baker and Josh Cooper. That is all.......

Yep. Remember when the Browns released David Nelson? He looked pretty good yesterday.......

[slice slice baby]

Gonna be a crazy day of games ALL DAY today! Maybe not so much if you're a Browns fan. I'm excited though! Let the games begin!

[lepiota]

It will be the only day I've ever rooted for the Steelers. Go 2014 Draft!

[Hayes Cooper]

Thank God this season over.

[gamekeeper]

So now that they fired the head coach once again. Does that mean we are looking at Norv Turner or the D coordinator being promoted to head coach, because if you bring a whole new staff that would be totally stupid. Especially since you just drafted for this style of offense and defense. Once again,The Browns have showed a lack of judgement. If what is being speculated is true, Josh Daniels (who Drafted TIM TEBOW for his starting QB) and Bill O'Brien, who I think would take the Houston job before the Browns, then they ditched a guy who really wanted to be there. He had no QB, and No running game. Hard to win games that way. Pretty *******ty you ask me. Josh Daniels is not the answer. He maybe able to O coordinate with the Pats, and Tom Brady. But he can't win games drafting if his idea of a QB is TIM TEBOW.

So The brown lose and get the 4th pick in the draft and we once again are looking for a Coach before the draft What a day to be a
Browns fan

Edited by gamekeeper, 29 December 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[NWbballfan]

The defense collapsed late. It surely isn't Horton. I believe Norv Turner is our guy. An established coach. The browns making this move, and making it swift tells me they already have their guy in place. A real shame that they had to do Chud like that but what else would you expect from this mess that has been called the Cleveland browns since 99. One thing I do look at is how we all bashed and questioned the FO for trading T-rich away. Then we turn around and win a few games and it looks like we actually got the better end of the deal because T-rich is not even a starter in Indi. I believe an overhaul is on the way for this team personnel wise. Dqwell Jackson has ran his while in Cleveland and I wouldn't be surprised if a Haden or Thomas want out as well.

[slice slice baby]

Why ditch a guy after only one year? Other than Mike Fell, how many coaches (at any level) can turn a team around in a yr?
I say, give 'em 3 and if they can't get it done in that time, then it's possibly time for a change.

[lepiota]

Union Steward voted out in The Factory of Sadness. Sigh

Edited by lepiota, 30 December 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[Ward]

I agree with slice. In sports, it seems like it is very hard to find that level of patience for success, especially when you have been patient long enough. Seems like some coaches are just thrown out there right away and are on the hot seat before they ever get to coach their first game. At times I believe you need to give your newly appointed coach time to develop with his team, because it's really hard to expect something right away from the guy who hasn't had much time to get his right personel in. But after seeing what Andy Reid did in Kansas City this season, pretty much defies that. I think the Browns need to go after a hot name in the off season. Personally I think the Browns should look into a guy at the college level.

[gamekeeper]

Cleveland is not exactly the Meca for big name coaches.
Turner is not the Answer, if that is the case then I would rather bring Marty back. Turner has had is chance with better teams, and better talent and couldn't get it done.
Horton, can't be it, or you would have made him it last year. So they must have someone who says he
is coming because like Richardson, they seem to have a plan. NWBBall may be right about that, but I
do not like Turner for the head coach. And if I am O'Brien good Lombardi friend of not. Houston is a better job right now than Cleveland. And Houston is willing to pay too.