75 replies to this topic

[Tribefan07]

Bobby, on 17 March 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Yes, I have. But no one is campaigning to have those schools put into their own separate tournament. And no one is indicting ALL public schools because of what those two did. LCC has taken grief much, much, much more than those two put together much less Ada alone.

Hypothetical slight toward Catholic schools? There is nothing hypothetical about it. There is a vote being taken in May to segregate ALL of us into a separate tournament. There is no legislation aimed at open enrollment schools only private schools.

VERY WELL put, Bobby.

[Johnstown Benny]

govikes, on 17 March 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Benny, I listed NC as a school who can draw students from a large population base. I'm not saying these kids haven't played for years, I said it was hard to believe. Newark is a large city with more choices. If parents want to send their kids to a Catholic Elementary, Junior, and Senior High, then good for them. Is it for the education or athletic tradition or both? I have a niece and a nephew who graduated from NC, so I am somewhat familiar with the program
My point is that the of the 10 seniors on our team 9 come from Leipsic as did their parents, and grandparents. One player came from Tinora in 4th grade. I would hope other teams all know each others parents and grandparents as well as our team does.

govikes,

Thanks for clarifying your initial post. Glad to hear you have a niece and nephew who are Newark Catholic alums. This fact,in itself,
does give your comments more credibility, by having some personal knowledge of the Newark Catholic school system. Having grown up in Newark, I have many friends who are NC grads and I have always had the utmost respect for the Green Wave athletic and academic successes over the years and I still remain in contact many athletic boosters at the school. Incidentally, I did not attend Newark Catholic, I'm a public school guy for what it's worth.

Over the years Newark Catholic has received a bad rap from other schools in the Licking County area and in a situation very similar
to Lima Central Catholic being booted out of the NW Conference, Newark Catholic, in 1989, was essentially tossed out of the old 10 member Licking County League, comprised of the 10 Licking County high schools, with Newark Senior HS being the only school not a member. It was a case of jealousy/envy since NC was dominating most sports. The other 9 county schools voted to withdraw from the league, leaving NC as the only team remaining. The 9 schools then were admitted into other leagues in the area in an interesting way to get NC out of the league. The irony of this entire scenario has now come full circle as the original 9 members of the old Licking County League plus Newark Catholic have now agreed to re-form the Licking County League beginning next year and it will contain the exact membership it had when it was dissolved 25 years ago ! Amazing.

I think when I read your post the first time, I may have missed your point. Your second post has clarified your postion . Sorry if
I over-reacted. Good luck to your Vikes at State this week.

JB

[Dman]

Bobby:

I don't disagree with a word in your last post. But ON THIS site...Hiland, Ada, South Webster, Dunbar, etc have all been discussed. They are all considered every bit as devious as St. Joe's (without the possible religion related hypocrisy argument).

The fact is a school like DSJ's gets hurt IF the privates seperate. I feel bad. But no worse than I feel for Arlington, Grove, Continental, etc. Small schools continuously hosed by the current set-up

There will ALWAYS be drawbacks to any system. I think that any system changes made...should be made with the intent to level the playing field for the MOST participants.

Again...it is too bad that DSJ's might get caught up in this. They should not be guilty by association...but they are. And nobody disagrees that Hiland, South Webster, etc shouldn't be included in the remedy...and currently they are not.

But the pity party needs to stop. Way too many publics and privates have acted like "weasels" for too long. Adults around all these schools sat back and let it happen. Most made excuses. Now the chickens might come back home...

The results might be devastating. The solution may be worse than the problem. All this stuff can be debated. But the fact is that had we had decent adult authority in positions of power at these schools...it would not have to come down to such a drastic remedy. IF it happens...the schools affected have nobody to blame but themselves.

[flounder]

Dman......

All of which you just mentioned plus the fact that the OHSAA continued to let it happen!!!!!

[Maltese Falcon]

flounder, on 18 March 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Dman......

All of which you just mentioned plus the fact that the OHSAA continued to let it happen!!!!!

The OHSAA is not a police force. The OHSAA runs tournaments, certifies officials and puts out points of emphasis dealing with safety measures, etc. You think the OHSAA is a bloated bureaucracy now, if it were to become an investigative entity, like flouder said, there would be no end to the size it could become. Schools police and report themselves based on their honesty and integrity, words that sometimes get lost in the heat of competition and athletics. Especially when, like Dman said, unscrupulous adults look the other way while they know the rules are being flouted in the name of winning.

[FiredupDevil]

So a bloated bureaucracy would be the current NCAA? It has all of the characteristics of the OHSAA and is an investigative force that seeks competitive balance but overlooks certain practices (oversigning) in the name of winning?

[bbdad]

Put the private schools in separate divisions but let them play in the regular season. Two states (there may be more) that do this are Georgia and Texas.

And them let them recruit to their heart's content. I have seen people post that this open enrollment/vouchers, etc. are heresy and give kids all sorts of bad examples. I'm going to call b.s. on that one. People move to different areas for money, family, housing, etc., etc. in other words, market and opportunity. Despite hatred by a large chunk of this country's population for free markets, teaching kids the value of their choices and the consequences is never a bad thing.

I for one DO NOT welcome our ant overlords (pop culture reference) whose greatest desire in life is to eliminate our desire and need for autonomy. Even though THEY know what's best for me and you.

[Stewart Little]

Reduce the number of divisions to 3 and divide each division into 2 state champions. In each division have the schools who have had the same "roster" since the 7th grade play for one championship, and then have a separate champion for other side of the division where they have allowed transfers in and have kids that have joined the roster since the 7th grade. 3 divisions, 6 champions.

Oh, and make the private school play division I...because they will find away to cheat the system.



Oh, and finally, play all the chamionship games at St. John's Arena

[Emerson]

flounder, on 16 March 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

And Dman.....I agree with you.......I just wish that this state could come up with a fair way to handle the recruiting problems that they are having...both by public and private schools...and yet not hurt those private more in particular than public that play by the rules.....that is all that I am saying......I have never been a advocate of letting the privates get away with what they are doing...some public schools are doing it also, but the fair amount of blame is going to the private schools.......but, I feel that DSJ does play by the rules, yet we will also be treated the same as those that are guilty.....that is what I disagree with!!!!

In Indiana, though I'm not totally familiar with it, they have a point system for teams that continually dominate a certain division. 3 points for a state title, 2 for a regional champ and 1 for a sectional champ (they have 3 rounds of sectionals with equates to a dist champ in Ohio) when a team reaches 6 points they go up a division. A d4 ohio school like VASJ could conceivably play in the d1 bracket competing for a d1 state title as a div 4 school. Surely this has it's pros and cons, but it would make for good matchups. This goes for football as well. Think about DSJ playing d2 and some of the matchups that could come of it..

[Dman]

This is not new. The Div IV has been dominated by transfer or recruit assisted teams for the better part of a decade. Hiland, South Webster, Africentric, etc. This one is just IN YOUR FACE. St. Joseph's has cut all pretense. We are not talking about one to 3 studs ala Ada during their state run. We are talking about an entire team. A school that was investigated for shenanigans back in 2010. A school who has come back "within the rules"and created a juggernaut. I dare say they are thumbing their noses at the entire system...daring authority to do something about it...

...will this skate by like a Hiland championship? Or is it different THIS time?

[effingA]

Dman why do you always bring up Ada and their state run? Faine came with his dad who still teaches in Ada. Every starter grew up in Ada.

[maddog]

Stewart Little, on 18 March 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Reduce the number of divisions to 3 and divide each division into 2 state champions. In each division have the schools who have had the same "roster" since the 7th grade play for one championship, and then have a separate champion for other side of the division where they have allowed transfers in and have kids that have joined the roster since the 7th grade. 3 divisions, 6 champions.

Oh, and make the private school play division I...because they will find away to cheat the system.



Oh, and finally, play all the chamionship games at St. John's Arena



This may be hard as it is on the schedule to be torn down.

[Dman]

Bobby is mad we don't bring up Ada enough...now effing A is mad I do it too much. Point made...

[Bigdogg79]

Until they come come up with a way to minimize the impact of the "creaming off the top" of private schools, they will always have an advantage over the publics who by law MUST take every kid who comes to the door. I'ts immaterial how many years and how many family members attend DSJ for how many years.

[Coach]

I still like my point system. Is it perfect? No, but if this was in place 5 years ago VASJ would be playing in the D-I Tournament and a lot of other schools would see the justification to this! It still allowed for some movement among players but if it was drastic then your school must move to that division if they make the team.

[effingA]

Not mad, I understand your point... just don't think it's quite as cut and dry as you.

I don't blame the LCC's for doing a good job. They are doing a fine job of educating kids and the state has a system that enables parents, through vouchers, to take advantage of their educational system. It's easy to sit back on your computer and judge those parents... I choose not to.

I will agree with the fact that they don't have the bottom third of society walking their halls. Either by choice or by the fact that third can't meet the financial requirements. Public schools do.

[Bobby]

Dman, on 18 March 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Bobby is mad we don't bring up Ada enough...now effing A is mad I do it too much. Point made...

I didn't bring up Ada, you did.

Perhaps it will all be moot in a few months. The privates will be herded off into their own tournament and all will be fair. But something tells me this won't be the end, it'll just be the beginning. And what we end up with might make Coach's wild points formula look simple.

[Dman]

The good news is that fair isn't the standard. It need only be better than status quo. Status quo decided THIS YEAR'S Div IV champion a couple AAU seasons back.

Even if the hypothetical "new system" is worse than the present...who cares? We already have a turd in the toilet we can't flush.

[diassingle]

I hope it does pass. In my opinion when it does the privates will split off and form there own leagues with there own rules. recruiting ? You bet ya. There will then be NO rules. Transfers will be able to do it without sitting out a year and all you'll here is a hugh sucking sound of more kids doing it. The ohsaa will become the PSAA "Public School Athletic Association". The Ohsaa has sponsers the privates will get there own. The ohsaa needs to enforce the rules they establish. They don't. Be careful what you wish for in this vote.

[flounder]

True.....I have already heard that the privates will drop from the OHSAA...thus creating more problems...also, state tournament championships will be tainted on both the public and private schools.....but the good thing is that there will be more state champs throughout the state......hell, who knows...maybe even poor little Shadyside will win one now.......what a freeking mess.....all because some schools refuse to work hard but still feel entitled to a trophy.....

Also...what about the 7th division in football...this already has many coaches screaming......just how watered down do we want it to get!!!!