167 replies to this topic

[LimaJock]

roarintiger1, on 28 February 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

And.........most of them are less than 10 years old.

My daddy always said, "with age comes wisdom".

LJ

[PostPlayer]

Bobby, on 28 February 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

No, it's not. There are a lot of kids who play soccer and love the sport.

Soccer is the downfall of fall sports at the high school level - period. No way any small school should have soccer - if you do, you can expect a season of mediocracy in both football and soccer forever. Soccer is for kids and for students in large schools - comparable to bowling, archery, swing choir, etc - all nice to have but not necessary

[Bobby]

PostPlayer, on 06 March 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Soccer is the downfall of fall sports at the high school level - period. No way any small school should have soccer - if you do, you can expect a season of mediocracy in both football and soccer forever. Soccer is for kids and for students in large schools - comparable to bowling, archery, swing choir, etc - all nice to have but not necessary

Should small schools also eliminate cross country and boys golf? How big should a school have to be to be allowed to have soccer? There a lot of high school kids, and as you said, soccer is for kids, who play soccer and love the sport. There is no justification to trash a sport just because you don't like it.

[gamekeeper]

Bobby, on 06 March 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Should small schools also eliminate cross country and boys golf? How big should a school have to be to be allowed to have soccer? There a lot of high school kids, and as you said, soccer is for kids, who play soccer and love the sport. There is no justification to trash a sport just because you don't like it.

as you can see football has them blinded.... that it is the all to end all. Even if the school only has 15 - 20 kids playing it.

[Common Sense]

I think the discussion should be...

Do we have Soccer OR Football, can't have both if you are a small school.

-If you have soccer, just understand that you're going to have a loss in revenue, now that may be offset by the decrease in football expesnes, soccer is obviously much cheaper than football.

Maybe the Putnam county schools can chime in, some of them have soccer and no football. How does that work, does the whole town show up for the soccer games on Friday nights?

Just look at the area schools who have football and soccer, Cory Rawson, Pandora, Van Buren, Riverdale one time pretty good football programs, now mediocre and struggling to keep kids in football. LB seems to be the only ones who can make it work.

[BOB]

ada has both

[ADog]

BOB, on 06 March 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

ada has both

As Bob says..Ada has both and I would have to say Ada has seen their best run in football ever in the last few years. Do I like soccer.....
not particularly but to each his own. If a school puts their mind to it, hires the right coaches, both sports can survive ( in most schools as I do realize some schools physically cannot support the numbers for both programs). And to PostPlayer......mentioning soccer with same breath as "bowling, archery etc" in the same breath...be careful...be verrry careful as you may hear a few people from the MAC speak against you in being able to support these "sports"

[PostPlayer]

Maybe I was a bit harsh on soccer after all...but it will never work in a small school that has football - mark it down.

I like soccer for kids btw. I just don't see it for HS sports unless your school does not offer football or is big enough to have multiple sports like LB or Findlay, etc. Kudos to you if your school is big enough and it flourishes but no way can it work at schools like Arlington, CR, HN, PG, and the likes.

[gamekeeper]

I agree that larger schools have an advantage for the sport. But coaching has much to do about soccer, golf, cross country as anything. Kids will play if they can play, and enjoy it. Also, I still say in this area, kids that are playing soccer weren't going to play football anyway. So if the school didn't have Soccer then they would probably be walking the hallways not doing anything. Football is not a sport you just play to participate and be a part of a team. You have to want to get hit, and be hit. That just isn't for everyone. When LB added soccer none of the kids were going to play football, even if there wasn't a soccer team. Smaller schools like you mentioned yes it would be tough. But I would argue that schools, like Vanlue and HN, that they might want to consider funding other schools sports. Easier to be competative in soccer with 20 kids than football. That;s been my arguement. Also kids want to play where they can compete. Who wants to play to get crushed every week. so you will lose kids to that as well.

[Common Sense]

gamekeeper, on 07 March 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

I agree that larger schools have an advantage for the sport. But coaching has much to do about soccer, golf, cross country as anything. Kids will play if they can play, and enjoy it. Also, I still say in this area, kids that are playing soccer weren't going to play football anyway. So if the school didn't have Soccer then they would probably be walking the hallways not doing anything. Football is not a sport you just play to participate and be a part of a team. You have to want to get hit, and be hit. That just isn't for everyone. When LB added soccer none of the kids were going to play football, even if there wasn't a soccer team. Smaller schools like you mentioned yes it would be tough. But I would argue that schools, like Vanlue and HN, that they might want to consider funding other schools sports. Easier to be competative in soccer with 20 kids than football. That;s been my arguement. Also kids want to play where they can compete. Who wants to play to get crushed every week. so you will lose kids to that as well.

Be very careful how you go about this. Soccer typically starts at these schools because there is a small group of enthusiastic parents that petitions the school board with this group of great soccer players, it goes ok for the couple of years these kids are in it, then they graduate, their isn't an enthusiatic group behind them and the struggles begin.
My point has always been that it's not the die hard football player, or the die hard soccer player that your competing for. It the fringe players that you need to be successful. That kid may get to high school, see that it's going to be freshman football, then maybe a litte JV, then possible varsity their junior and senior year. For soccer, they can step on the field as a freshman, get a varsity letter and they'll never go back to football. Those are the football program killers. Cory Rawson, Van Buren, Pandora all had these happen. And yes, when one is a little stronger than the other, some of those kids will gravitate to the more successful sport.
Vanlue and HN can compete in football, but they need to be in the league with Perry, Ridgemont and USV. I think you may see their numbers go up if you have a "chance" to win 4-5 games.

[gamekeeper]

Van Buren proves my point. They are i believe now the biggest or (one of) school in the BVC. But they have 15 boys playing golf and they have been successful in soccer 20 - 25 boys playing soccer and then you add cross country. They still have plenty of kids to field a team, but they are not getting the better athlete possibly or an athlete that would play a major role, because of coaching.
And you are right the fringe player is what you are trying to sway to come to help your team And winning has alot to do with it.
" Why waste my time practicing hard if we are just going to lose by 20 points anway is a hard thing to over come."

[HH75]

gamekeeper, on 07 March 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Van Buren proves my point. They are i believe now the biggest or (one of) school in the BVC. But they have 15 boys playing golf and they have been successful in soccer 20 - 25 boys playing soccer and then you add cross country. They still have plenty of kids to field a team, but they are not getting the better athlete possibly or an athlete that would play a major role, because of coaching.
And you are right the fringe player is what you are trying to sway to come to help your team And winning has alot to do with it.
" Why waste my time practicing hard if we are just going to lose by 20 points anway is a hard thing to over come."

Too bad the attitude isnt.... If I (and him, him, and him).WOULD play we wouldnt get beat by 20! Wonder where kids get the "why should I ? "attitude from???


I digress!

[roarintiger1]

HH75, on 07 March 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Too bad the attitude isnt.... If I (and him, him, and him).WOULD play we wouldnt get beat by 20! Wonder where kids get the "why should I ? "attitude from???


I digress!

Wow......then they would be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

[gamekeeper]

HH75, on 07 March 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Too bad the attitude isnt.... If I (and him, him, and him).WOULD play we wouldnt get beat by 20! Wonder where kids get the "why should I ? "attitude from???


I digress!

so your suggesting that parents should force their kids to play football now? that is is the students duty as a boy to play football?

[HH75]

gamekeeper, on 08 March 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

so your suggesting that parents should force their kids to play football now? that is is the students duty as a boy to play football?

Yeah... thats exactly what I was saying!!...

Maybe the kid has heard... oohhh, I don't know... one or more of the following before...

"Why should I go to BOE meeting?"
"Why should I go to music boosters meetings?"
"Why should I go to "PTA" meetings?"
"Why should I volunteer to help at X, Y or Z?"
"Why should I go to athletic board meetings?"
"Why should I?"....
"Why should I?"...

"Why should Johnny have to go to all those summer workouts just to play football/ basketball/ fill in a sport ? If he does decide to go out for the team and doesn't get equal playing time ,THEN, I will go to a BOE meeting and DEMAND the coach be fired!!"




But if you want to go ahead and think I was saying kids should be "forced" to play a sport, .... you go ahead and do that!! but I'm gonna need another !!

[hunt4em]

Gamekeeper, Please it' plain to see you will defend soccer to the end. Please go to the soccer forum where other people think like you. This is a football forum we love football and will defend it to the end, so we can talk again if we ever visit your soccer forum, fat chance of that happening.

[Bobby]

hunt4em, on 08 March 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Gamekeeper, Please it' plain to see you will defend soccer to the end. Please go to the soccer forum where other people think like you. This is a football forum we love football and will defend it to the end, so we can talk again if we ever visit your soccer forum, fat chance of that happening.

No one's attacked football. That's great if you love football and will "defend it to the end", although I don't know what you're defending it from. But it's not okay to bash another sport just because you don't like it. Have a little respect for others and what they love.

[Pantherbuff]

gamekeeper, on 07 March 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Van Buren proves my point. They are i believe now the biggest or (one of) school in the BVC. But they have 15 boys playing golf and they have been successful in soccer 20 - 25 boys playing soccer and then you add cross country. They still have plenty of kids to field a team, but they are not getting the better athlete possibly or an athlete that would play a major role, because of coaching.
And you are right the fringe player is what you are trying to sway to come to help your team And winning has alot to do with it.
" Why waste my time practicing hard if we are just going to lose by 20 points anway is a hard thing to over come."

One of the problems that smaller schools with both programs, is skilled players!!!!!! More skilled players you have, the better team you have, QB's, running backs,wide recevers, and etc. And , if they,re playing soccer, the football team will suffer and vice versa!!!!! Smaller schools useually have fewer of these players because of the numbers game!!!!!! Now there are a few exceptions ot this!!!!!

[dw629]

Pantherbuff, on 10 March 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

One of the problems that smaller schools with both programs, is skilled players!!!!!! More skilled players you have, the better team you have, QB's, running backs,wide recevers, and etc. And , if they,re playing soccer, the football team will suffer and vice versa!!!!! Smaller schools useually have fewer of these players because of the numbers game!!!!!! Now there are a few exceptions ot this!!!!!

What is up with the 20 !'s? We can hear you, you don't need to scream.

[gamekeeper]

First off I am not defending soccer or football i am stating a fact. HN and Vanlue doesn't have soccer and you can only get 20 boys to go out and play. You are no longer competative period in football. (And I don't see them leaving the conference)
I just suggested that they drop football and become a basketball school. YOu can focus on basketball and get more money from gates because you have more home games. Other schools of that size have already done that. Then if you drop football you can offer soccer as an option. AS AN option, I agree you can't have both. I never said you could so you can all stop screaming at me that I did. Or don't offer kickball as you call it I really don't care. I just don't think it is fair to the league to wonder year in and out whether you are going to have enough students to field a team. That is just my opinion bottom line, it is not fair to the league. And if you love football as you say. Then I don't see how you can think it is either.


SEcond, I am not forcing a kid to PLay if he doesnt' want to just because some of you think he owes it to the school. That's idotic. YOU do not want a kid to play football if his heart isn't in it. That's how kids get hurt....That's a fact.
I do however believe it is up to the Coach of the Said teams to get kids to play. If the coach is good and the kids respect him, then the kids will play.

Edited by gamekeeper, 10 March 2013 - 05:01 PM.