76 replies to this topic

[flounder]

I noticed that Holgate pulled off another exciting win last night.......I did not attend the game, but someone said that Holgate was down 10-2 at one point.....quite a comeback and I am sure that many fans were on the edge of their seats as Holgate turned up the 'heat' and came back to win this game going away.....for them to win a game by 2 points is like a up tempo team winning by 10.....hence the 'going away' statement....

Enough of the fun......people condemn Holgate for their style of play and I was one of those people, but a close friend of mine by the name of 'Louden Swayne' changed my view......the coach at Holgate has few players to work with and is using the only logical approach for him and his team to register the win....limit the possessions and play great D and you will compete in most of your games.....if you are on the opposing team, a 4 point deficit feels like you are down 10.....much credit goes to the coach for getting his players to buy into this system. For Holgate it has been working.......I think I would rather watch this style than to watch....say a Fort Jennings team that tries to push the ball and score alot of points only to get drilled by 30..............

Just my opinion!!!!

[waterloowonder]

I was at the game. Continental actually stalled most of the game. They probably had ball possession 75% of the time. I think their coach felt it was there only chance to win, and he was probably right.

Your assessment of Holgate's strategy makes sense, even though they have played deliberate in the past with some pretty talented teams.

[flounder]

I was at state the year that Holgate brought home the trophy......the reaction from the fans that weren't familiar with Holgate's style was priceless......some applauded and some did not approve.....years ago Antwerp employed a similar style and this season Ottoville has done the same.............smart coaching and great pr sell for the coach!!!!!

[flounder]

I can hardly wait until 'Louden Swayne' visits this thread!!!!!

[Louden Swayne]

Holgate takes a lot of flack about their style "Holgate ball" "stall ball" etc. etc. The fact of the matter is, as demonstrated again tonight, most of our opponents are trying to out Wayno, Wayno. We will see this again in the sectional final from Antwerp. This year it really comes down to Holgate making some shots, which has been a struggle. The defense is always going to be there.

[Louden Swayne]

Please note another example in the 2/27 finals post. Teddy Malone Loves Holgate basketball!

[Louden Swayne]

Please give your opinions: Which game was better to watch? Holgate/Continental or Leipsic/North Baltimore.

[CTX_1]

Leipsic/North Baltimore

[flounder]

Louden......

Exactly....and not saying FJ is any different than many other teams, but FJ tries to push the ball, get a half a$$ shot and let it fly....they usually get blown out, but once in awhile get lucky and win......I was one of those that pushed for the shot clock, but not anymore....basketball is a sport where one team must outscore another....who cares how they do it....it just adds suspense to the game, and the thing is that when a team has a 'Holgate style' team on their schedule, they at least know how to approach that team.....no one has the advantage....I hate watching it, but it does take coaching to a new level, and levels the playing field........the shot clock would take all of that away!!!!!!

[PHSfan_1023]

I was at the game and there's no doubt I would have rather watched that game than that 107-39 debacle. Continental's first possession alone lasted over 2 minutes. Homier said coming in that they wanted to play Holgate's style because running on them would force unnecessary turnovers and give them more possessions. Continental's 18 points was partly a result of deliberate play but mostly due to a tough-as-nails Holgate defense. Even without the scoring, it was still one of the most exciting games I've seen in a while. Although, if Rue had drained that 27-footer, we'd be talking about something else entirely. That shot went off the backboard, off the inside of the front rim, was halfway down and bounced out. It got as close to being a make as it possibly could have. I felt nothing but heartbreak for those Continental kids for getting that unbearably close and losing.

[flounder]

PHSfan......

I don't think you can count Holgate out...I know their record isn't real good, but they have played many teams very tough.....and I think they beat Edgerton earlier at their place!!!!!

Just noticed......they are riding a 7 game win streak!!!

[TiGgEr3]

Interesting hearing the other side of the Leipsic vs Holgate style of play thing. I did the Leipsic game last night and what stands out to me is in an interview with Coach Maag after the game he said he was ok with the amount of turnovers his team committed(19) because his style of play dictates there will be a lot.......stark contrast clearly from the Holgate style which puts an extra emphasis on EVERY possession being vital to the team winning.

[PHSfan_1023]

flounder, on 28 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

PHSfan......

I don't think you can count Holgate out...I know their record isn't real good, but they have played many teams very tough.....and I think they beat Edgerton earlier at their place!!!!!

Just noticed......they are riding a 7 game win streak!!!

I never said I was counting them out. Defense can keep any team in almost any game, and Holgate has good defense and good discipline.

[charliesheen]

I would rather watch a game that was 107-7 than 20-18. If I wanted to see scores like that, I would go watch 3rd grade YMCA games. Sorry, but I really find it hard to believe that younger kids from Holgate would even be interested in playing basketball knowing that that's what they have to look forward to when they get to HS. I realize that Wayno has won a lot of games using that system, but there were some years that he wasted some talented kids by forcing them to play that way. I'm not sure that his record would have been any worse had he played "normal" basketball.

[erniefurgler]

charliesheen, on 28 February 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I would rather watch a game that was 107-7 than 20-18. If I wanted to see scores like that, I would go watch 3rd grade YMCA games. Sorry, but I really find it hard to believe that younger kids from Holgate would even be interested in playing basketball knowing that that's what they have to look forward to when they get to HS. I realize that Wayno has won a lot of games using that system, but there were some years that he wasted some talented kids by forcing them to play that way. I'm not sure that his record would have been any worse had he played "normal" basketball.

Paul Waynes not foolish...he knows he does not consistently have the horses to keep up with the competition...he does have well disciplined teams that play hard every night & gives the team a chance to win the game...Was talent "wasted" or was talent utilize for the good of the team/program?...cant argue against a stretch of seven straight regional appearances, two final fours & one state title...all coming since he implemented "Wayno" ball...Holgate never experienced that kind of success when playing "traditional" bball...and for the record I am not from Holgate nor due I have any real connection to the program

Edited by erniefurgler, 28 February 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[cs59]

From the beginning the object of BB has been to score baskets, hence the name "basketball". Why else have " basket" in the name if you aren't going to use it. Naismith could have named it "dribbleball" or "holdball" but he didn't for a reason. He wanted a way to keep score & it's hard to score dribbles or holds. Holgate can call it basketball if they want, but calling it that without baskets doesn't make it so.

[country boy]

charliesheen, on 28 February 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I would rather watch a game that was 107-7 than 20-18. If I wanted to see scores like that, I would go watch 3rd grade YMCA games. Sorry, but I really find it hard to believe that younger kids from Holgate would even be interested in playing basketball knowing that that's what they have to look forward to when they get to HS. I realize that Wayno has won a lot of games using that system, but there were some years that he wasted some talented kids by forcing them to play that way. I'm not sure that his record would have been any worse had he played "normal" basketball.

Ive seen a lot of high scoring cyo games, and I didn't particularly like them. Holgate plays their style because its the best fit for them. After all the objective isn't to see how many points you can score, it's to score more points than your opponent. "You play to win the game" charlie. If you want to be entertained, stop being a tighta** and start buying tickets to NBA games.

[dhsdawg06]

It's not my style and I'd rather not watch it. But luckily I don't have to....and I can't fault a coach for finding a way to win at a school as small as Holgate. Fact is he doesn't have the players to run with the bigger schools, and this is probably his only way of competing. I'm alright with it. Again, not my style in the least(I'd personally be fine with never seeing defense played in basketball....whichever team knocks down their shots and gets to 150 first wins).


Also, that 10-2 score referenced in the first post.....that was the halftime score.

[waterloowonder]

charliesheen, on 28 February 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I would rather watch a game that was 107-7 than 20-18. If I wanted to see scores like that, I would go watch 3rd grade YMCA games. Sorry, but I really find it hard to believe that younger kids from Holgate would even be interested in playing basketball knowing that that's what they have to look forward to when they get to HS. I realize that Wayno has won a lot of games using that system, but there were some years that he wasted some talented kids by forcing them to play that way. I'm not sure that his record would have been any worse had he played "normal" basketball.

It is hard to criticize Wayno for his style based on his success, but if there is a downside it is getting younger boys to develop a passion and offensive skills for the game playing that style. Holgate girls play on uptempo offense with a very stingy defense like the boys. Their girls program is loaded with players as far down as you can see. It is not the same for the boys and I think it has a lot to do with the style of play.

[PHSfan_1023]

Let me amend my previous statement. I would have rather watched Holgate-Continental than Leipsic dropping 3 digits on lowly NB. I would pick an exciting game any day over some 68 point blowout. H.S. ball that ends up in the 60s and 70s is fine with me because it drives me insane to see some of the city schools that pour in points but have no court discipline and fundamentals at all.