70 replies to this topic

[flounder]

Landess, on 08 February 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

The rocket boy and flubbed rankings have always been more about ranking by region as opposed to the top teams. The top 4 teams in southwest Ohio division 1 are better than everyone in the nw and quite possibly the central. However since only 2 make the regional final, several inferior teams will stay around longer. This is how flubbed and rocksalt manipulate their rankings.

flubbed and rocksalt.......hmmm, I guess you don't agree with our rankings Landess.....so you prefer the AP poll!!!!!

[Snip]

flounder, on 09 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

flubbed and rocksalt.......hmmm, I guess you don't agree with our rankings Landess.....so you prefer the AP poll!!!!!

Flubber, don't take it personal. Everyone can see how you guys structure your picks. You guys are "Spot On" when giving us your insites to who will make it to regionals and state. Job well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[flounder]

Snip, on 09 February 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Flubber, don't take it personal. Everyone can see how you guys structure your picks. You guys are "Spot On" when giving us your insites to who will make it to regionals and state. Job well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!

snip.....

I only take it personal when someone who actually knows girls hoops rips on us....someone like you snip...or grub, grace,coach, kaizen and a few others that really know the sport......now, that might upset me....I appreciate the kind words snip!!!!!!

[flounder]

grub, on 08 February 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Overlooked? Screw it, adios!

grub......

You should know me better than that....just having a little fun with you.....I always appreciate your knowledgeable posts!!!!!!

[Grace]

Grace has never met a more humble, graceful lovable person like Landess! And he does know BB!FYI I don't drink or smoke wack-eee tobac-eee but I am a little crazy........... Grubster, those Rams are looking good!! Git ur dune big foot!

Zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

Edited by Grace, 09 February 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[Rocketman]

Happy Valentine's to all of the ladies out there who follow the "Flounder & Rocketman's" rankings.....very grateful that Flound took the lead
this week as it has been extremely hectic around the RM household.......I have been on the road constantly going back and forth from the new casino
in Columbus to the one that will be opening next month in Cincinnati.....just putting the finishing touches on the projects so I should be back to normal
in time for the girls tournament.........TODAY is DRAW day around the state for the boys basketball tournament with the girls draw having been completed
last weekend........with that in mind I need to clear up a little misconception with some of our readers on how the Flounder and i come about our rankings each
week........I would like for everyone to go back to our first week's rankings and look them over closely........after you do this you'll find that it's fairly obvious how
we come up with our formula each year...........in D4, we always favor the NW Ohio area along with Berlin Hiland in our statewide rankings........D2, we lean towards
SW and NE Ohio..........D3, we return to the SW and NW areas of the state..........and finally in D1 we tend to go with SW Ohio with a sprinkling from NE, and Central
Ohio.........just in the last few years have we even included the NW Ohio teams in our state rankings as their past history didn't warrant their mention.........

So to be clear, WE DON'T TRY to even out the regions so we just look good........certain areas have certain advantages and a history of success....THAT is what we
look for, and it would take an idiot not to recognize these simple facts.......you'll notice this week that although the AP poll has a Jackson team from SE Ohio highly
ranked in D2, they aren't even on my radar screen.........heck, there are probably 6-7 teams in the Dayton area that are better.........again in D4, other than Lake Ridge Academy
I have almost neglected 50% of the state from consideration.....(well, there is that little bitty pocket over in Holmes Co. )......D2 is heavily dominated by the teams
that have history on their side..........same as D1...........so to say we pick 2-3 teams from each region is so far from the truth that it really hurts me to think that someone
would even suggest that Flounder and I would think of that.........it's not how we do business .........

I could probably go back to my first week's rankings and actually make a case for each team in those rankings..........and in about 3 more weeks I might
also the RC is proud to announce that next year we will be in charge of the "Weatherman's Contest" that is done each year during the Classic in the Country
weekend.........all of the picks will be made here and you will actually be able to chart your progress during the event.........the only thing that will be different from
our other contests is that there won't be a "points spread"... .....so now that you know the real truth about the rankings, sit back with a nice cup of coffee and enjoy
the BEST girls high school rankings to be found............"WE KNOW GIRLS BASKETBALL"..........thanks RM
Statewide Division I

Twinsburg
Kettering Fairmont
Mason
Centerville
Reynoldsburg
Perrysburg
Wadsworth
Olentangy Orange
St. Joseph
North Canton Hoover

Division II

Millersburg West Holmes
Clyde
Toledo Rogers
Kettering Alter
Hathaway Brown
Oxford Talawanda
Bellbrook
Akron Hoban
Celina
ASVSM

Division III

Columbus Africentric
Proctorville Fairland
Orrville
Smithville
Archbold
Anna
Versailles
Miami East
Gates Mills Gilmour Academy
Beverly Fort Frye


Division IV

Ottoville
Fort Loramie
Tri Village
Newark Catholic
Villa Angela St. Joseph
Berlin Hiland
Patrick Henry
Lake Ridge Academy
Fort Recovery
New Knoxville


NW Ohio Division I
Perrysburg
Sylvania Southview
Toledo Notre Dame
Toledo Start
Toledo Central Catholic
Findlay
Anthony Wayne
Norwalk
Lima Sr.
Mansfield Sr.

Division II
Clyde
Toledo Rogers
Celina
Bellevue
Lima Bath
Sandusky Perkins
Shelby
Oak Harbor
Wauseon
Wapakoneta

Division III
Anna
Archbold
Versailles
Otsego
Upper Sandusky
Liberty Benton
Ottawa Glandorf
Ontario
Elmwood
Wynford

Division IV
Ottoville
Patrick Henry
New Knoxville
Arcadia
Carey
New Riegel
Convoy Crestview
Minster
Mansfield St. Peter
Marion Local

[kaizen]

my apologies! still a nice geographic dispersion though.

[Rocketman]

Rocketman, on 05 December 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

As promised, and not a minute too soon the RC releases the 12th Annual "Flounder & Rocketman's" Girls Basketball Rankings
for the 2012-13 season........

First off, a little history on our poll and how the Flounder & I came up with the idea of doing our first rankings back in 2001......everyone
knows that the AP has been attempting to rank teams for a long time, but quite frankly did a terrible job if I do say so myself
Knowing this and also having an interest in promoting the girls game of basketball after watching the disparity shown vs. the men's game
the Flound and I decided to do something about it...........first over on the old Huddle, and then in late 2005 when the RC came into existence
we have followed our hearts in trying to elevate the recognition that the women also deserve............

For the past 11 years our motto has always been "WE KNOW GIRLS BASKETBALL!" and during that time I can truthfully say that our knowledge
of the girls game takes a backseat to no one .........While Tom Jenkins from the OGBR and Jim Dabbelt have certainly done their part in raising
the awareness throughout Ohio and beyond, it has been our goal of letting the casual fan in on some of the more intricate workings of the girls game...
and with just a touch of humility we feel that we have done just that

Each year we give the AP voters about a 6 week advantage before they must declare their top 10's.........we've always said that they shouldn't even
bother.........a very simple "copy & paste" feature would save them an enormous amount of time and their accuracy would improve tremendously.....

The Flound hails from the Delphos area and anyone who knows girls basketball has to know the great tradition of the Delphos St. Johns Lady Jays
So it's not too hard to imagine that he's forgotten more about the girls game than most people know........I, on the other hand come from the small burg
of Pandora, Ohio.........hardly known as a bastion of high school sports .........but growing up in a houseful of women and having 2 of our own has
given me some pretty good insight on how women think and act on the basketball court, if not life itself......following the great Kalida, DSJ, and MC teams
early on led me to appreciate all the hard work these young ladies do, without all the hoopla that the boys game enjoys here around Putnam County.

Both the Flounder and I hope you enjoy our rankings and when the dust settles come the middle of March you can always look back at these first rankings and say to yourself, "Man, these guys KNOW GIRLS BASKETBALL!...........RM

Statewide
Division I

Kettering Fairmont
Reynoldsburg
Solon
Cincy Princeton
Twinsburg
Pickerington North
Gahanna Lincoln
Columbus Northland
Mason
Wadsworth

Division II

Millersburg West Holmes
Hathaway Brown
Clyde
Toledo Rogers
Bellbrook
Lima Bath
Walsh Jesuit
Celina
Kettering Alter
Miami Trace

Division III

Columbus Africentric
Orrville
Anna
Proctorville Fairland
Smithville
Beverly Fort Frye
Versailles
Miami East
Canton Central Catholic
Gates Mills Gilmour Academy

Division IV

Ottoville
Fort Loramie
Tri Village
Berlin Hiland
Newark Catholic
Mansfield St. Pete
Lake Ridge Academy
Marion Local
Minster
New Riegel

[slice slice baby]

Rocketman, on 10 February 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

also the RC is proud to announce that next year we will be in charge of the "Weatherman's Contest" that is done each year during the Classic in the Country
weekend.........all of the picks will be made here and you will actually be able to chart your progress during the event.........the only thing that will be different from
our other contests is that there won't be a "points spread"........

woooo~woot!!!!
but, i'm not sure which is worse, spread or no spread....?? neither's worked for me lately.

[kaizen]

i dont think you would find anyone other than the ap voters themselves defend the ap poll. its an abomination. it gives them something to do on monday after the weekend. I wouldnt even compare myself to them. do your own thing and let the chips fall. much of it is unproveable anyway. a 3 loss port clinton for example, could they or would they beat a jackson from se ohio? we will never know. thats why its unproveable and a mute point on who is in a mythical poll. everyone knows at least 6 teams that will show up in the poll every year. the other 4 or 5 come in 1 year and disappear the next due to graduation or the way most teams cycle (youth vs. upperclasswomen). its those 4 or 5 other teams that can make you look REAL GOOD. I agree that records mean nothing especially if you look at strength of schedule. with that in mind, there will be some upset teams and fans come tourney time. undefeated yet lose in districts make you evaluate the program. i will be tuning in for the last poll this week.

how oak harbor shows up each week in d2 in nw ohio has me really puzzled.

Edited by kaizen, 10 February 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[Mysterio]

flounder, on 08 February 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

kaizen.....

Does that formula work....actually, to be honest with you, I rank teams not by record, but tournament experience, sos, coach, conference they play in, tradition, and a couple other intriguing factors......and usually it works.....take Hathaway Brown for example....they have 5 losses this season...which is pretty much the norm every year for them.....but you know what....they are always right there....Rocketman and I view so many games during the season...sometimes we are wrong, but I will take our polls over the AP fellas any day.....I will admit...Versailles has been on a slide here lately, and I know Miami East beat them......big deal....tournament time is a whole new ballgame....another example....Berlin Hiland.....they beat West Holmes recently.....Ottoville hasn't come close to beating a quality opponent like West Holmes.....Landess has griped many times in the past, but in the end, guess who is right.......not trying to brag, but the results are there every season....sure, we miss some, but in the end we are usually right more than we are wrong.........let it play out and we will see if our polls are better than the AP polls.....and also remember...our polls hit the press earlier than the other guys poll!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think Ottoville has played just as good as competition as any team in division 4 if not better at least. Berlin Hiland plays some pretty weak teams down there and it's so hard for people like us in the area to judge what kind if teams they play compared to here.

Edited by Mysterio, 10 February 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[flounder]

Sterio......

Berlin Hiland played 2 teams that no one on Ottoville's schedule can compare to.......West Holmes and Wadsworth.....Ottoville has not played a team as tough as those 2.......and sure, Hiland does play some weak teams.....as does Ottoville....good food for thought!!!!!

[Mysterio]

flounder, on 10 February 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

Sterio......

Berlin Hiland played 2 teams that no one on Ottoville's schedule can compare to.......West Holmes and Wadsworth.....Ottoville has not played a team as tough as those 2.......and sure, Hiland does play some weak teams.....as does Ottoville....good food for thought!!!!!

Berlin Hiland got destroyed by Wadsworth who (from a recent game this year) is only 12 points better than Bath. I'll maybe give you Fort Loramie being ranked over Ottoville (just because of who the Fort played and beat) but not so sure about Berlin Hiland. Ottoville just came up short the last 3 years in tournament, getting beaten by a better team simply. To this day I still feel Ottoville was a better team than Arlington last year, but it just wasn't their game. (Just my opinion though). It happens lol. I think the tournament can sometimes disguise a team because every team has a different road to state and some play tougher competition than others. Which can really beat down a team and sometimes it just takes the right team to have things go their way. I'm not discrediting Wadsworth or West Holmes I just look at who they play. But you can't overlook that Berlin Hiland does have the easiest road to state year in and year out. As always flounder I respect you and your rankings. Although it may be tough for the O to get down there without Kaufman, but hopefully we can get a classic Ottoville vs Hiland rematch in the state finals this year.

Edited by Mysterio, 11 February 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[flounder]

Sterio........

You are right when you say that Berlin Hiland has a easy road to Cbus.....I think if Ottoville comes to play, that they will make it to state....after that, it is anybody's guess!!!!

[Mysterio]

flounder, on 11 February 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Sterio........

You are right when you say that Berlin Hiland has a easy road to Cbus.....I think if Ottoville comes to play, that they will make it to state....after that, it is anybody's guess!!!!

You are right about that

[Landess]

Hiland beat west Holmes. That alone says they are better than Ottoville.
Why on earth did you leave out Carroll? Carroll is hands down the best d2 in the southwest region.

[Kane]

Landess, on 12 February 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Hiland beat west Holmes. That alone says they are better than Ottoville.
Why on earth did you leave out Carroll? Carroll is hands down the best d2 in the southwest region.

That a lone means nothing Landess. I can also say that Wadsworth destroyed Berlin Hiland by 24 points. Which I said earlier Wadsworth is only 12 points better than Bath. Ottoville beat Bath on the road by 19 points. I don't like to say those kind of things because every team plays another differently, but if you are going to use that to say Hiland is better than Ottoville, then I will counter with the Wadsworth-Bath argument. Don't get me wrong, i think Berlin Hiland has a pretty good team like they do every year but just because they beat one team that stands out more than any team Ottoville has beat does not make them better. Would make a great match up. Although again Ottoville's road to state is way tougher, as usual, than Berlin Hiland's so should be interesting.

Edited by Kane, 12 February 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[tfloangel]

flounder, on 10 February 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

Sterio......

Berlin Hiland played 2 teams that no one on Ottoville's schedule can compare to.......West Holmes and Wadsworth.....Ottoville has not played a team as tough as those 2.......and sure, Hiland does play some weak teams.....as does Ottoville....good food for thought!!!!!

Don't forget Twinsburg, Damascus, Maryland (who arguably WERE without their top scorer at strength), Akron SVSM, and Wooster! Garaway is strong this year. Hiland has a much much better strength of schedule than they have played in the past

KANE and MYSTERIO... Hiland actually has some serious contenders in their sectional and district, as they did last year. Rosecrans, Garaway, and Shadyside (who has the all-time Ohio 3-point record holder in Karli Bonar) are all incredibly tough. Then if they make it to Massillon they will likely see Lake Ridge Academy (barring a major upset) in the Regional semis. If they win that game you could see a 60 point spread like last year in the regional finals. I KNOW that the West-central and NW districts are brutal. I'm not arguing that at all, but don't assume that they have the easiest road any longer. I would say that honor goes to the SE region, where it SHOULD be Reedsville Eastern battling it out with Newark Catholic at some point. Everyone else will just be trying to play spoiler.

As for Wadsworth - I saw them this summer, at the Classic and then on Saturday evening. Yes, Hiland got it handed to them, but this was FAR and AWAY the best I've seen the Grizzlies play. They were absolutely lights out from 3 in the 1st half. If they play like that they could give Twinsburg a real run for their money

Edited by tfloangel, 13 February 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[Kane]

tfloangel, on 13 February 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

And Kane... Hiland actually has some serious contenders in their sectional and district. Rosecrans, Garaway, and Shadyside (who has the all-time Ohio 3-point record holder in Karli Bonar) are all incredibly tough. I KNOW that the West-central and NW districts are brutal. I'm not arguing that at all, but don't assume that they have an easy road.

I don't know tfloangel. Don't think I can buy into that. Maybe this year is different, who knows, but lately they have had a very easy run to state.

[charliesheen]

Landess, on 12 February 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Hiland beat west Holmes. That alone says they are better than Ottoville.
Why on earth did you leave out Carroll? Carroll is hands down the best d2 in the southwest region.

How did Ottoville do against West Holmes??? Comparing one team to another based on results against a common opponent is bad enough....but making comparisons based on an opponent only one team has played is comical. I would think that you would understand this as much as anyone here.....though I really think the only reason you come on here is to try to somehow make people think you know more about girls basketball than these two guys do....

.....then you throw out something like Hiland beat West Holmes so they are better than Ottoville.............and we all see you for what you are...lol