122 replies to this topic

[osufan512]

BOB, on 26 August 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

my mistake in assuming someone on the coaching staff at lcc would know what foot your punter kicks with. clutch you let me down.

Comments like this is why I try to stay out of the conversation about LCC on this website as much as I can. Sometimes I just can't help myself though.

[BOB]

if i said something incorrect i apologize to t-bird nation. I may have clutch confused with someone else

[doslobos]

BOB, on 26 August 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

my mistake in assuming someone on the coaching staff at lcc would know what foot your punter kicks with. clutch you let me down.

Coaching staff? Not quite. But doesn't change the fact that I've watched every snap, with some being because I had to. Keep trying. At least you could admit it was your bad.

[doslobos]

And clutch definitely doesn't coach either. You're definitely confused, that's for sure, lol.

[clutch]

I'm on the LCC coaching staff. I'm also wealthier then bill gates.

[jeffcat-bucki]

osufan512, on 26 August 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Because the game was 6-0 and it was 4th and 6? I mean if you make that FG you're up 9 and get up 2 scores. If you miss it you're in same same position as if you didn't convert on 4th down. Still up 6-0 and give the opponent a long field.

Well obviously, but why even TRY a FG if you lack so much faith in your kicker that you won't even go for an extra point that will give you a 6 point lead as opposed to a 5 point lead. It doesn't make any sense.

[Rd2Glory]

jeffcat-bucki, on 26 August 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Well obviously, but why even TRY a FG if you lack so much faith in your kicker that you won't even go for an extra point that will give you a 6 point lead as opposed to a 5 point lead. It doesn't make any sense.

When LCC scored to go up 18-13, they could've tried to kick a field goal to go up 6 or went for 2 to go up 7. My guess is that Cooper thought that, if DSJ were to score, they would make their PAT because they had a pretty good kicker. So, going up 6 would be as useful as being up 5. It's better to put your destiny in your own hands and make it a 7 point lead than to rely on their kicker missing if they scored.

[jeffcat-bucki]

Rd2Glory, on 26 August 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

When LCC scored to go up 18-13, they could've tried to kick a field goal to go up 6 or went for 2 to go up 7. My guess is that Cooper thought that, if DSJ were to score, they would make their PAT because they had a pretty good kicker. So, going up 6 would be as useful as being up 5. It's better to put your destiny in your own hands and make it a 7 point lead than to rely on their kicker missing if they scored.

I guess, but their 2 pt conversions were awful too. I'm just a little confused as to how somebody with so little faith in the kicking game that he goes for 2 every time, even has the audacity to even try a FG if the PAT team is so bad that they can't even make a PAT in their eyes.

[Rd2Glory]

jeffcat-bucki, on 26 August 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

I guess, but their 2 pt conversions were awful too. I'm just a little confused as to how somebody with so little faith in the kicking game that he goes for 2 every time, even has the audacity to even try a FG if the PAT team is so bad that they can't even make a PAT in their eyes.

Going for 2 is something Cooper did all the time at Grove and a lot of the time at LCC pre-O'Connor, especially on the first score of the game. He has a "make them stop us" mentality and I think believes that they will be able to gain the 2 1/2 yards needed for a 2 pt conversion at least half the time (which would balance out if the PAT were to be made 100% of the time).

First score (6-0): Go for 2 and try to gain an early edge.

2nd score (12-0): You're up 2 TDs either way, if you believe DSJ is going to make their PATs, you have to go for 2 to try and gain back the point you missed out on.

3rd score (18-13): Kick the PAT and go up 6, or get the 2 point conversion and go up 7. I think you're the only person on the planet that think that's a bad decision at that point in the game.

As for the attempted field goal, he liked his chances of making the FG more than picking up 6 yards on 4th and 6. After not converting on the 1st 2 pt conversion, I thought all of those kick-it-or-not decisions were good decisions.

You're mad at him for trying a short FG and also mad at him for not kicking PATs:

Edited by Rd2Glory, 26 August 2012 - 11:11 PM.

[jeffcat-bucki]

Rd2Glory, on 26 August 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Going for 2 is something Cooper did all the time at Grove and a lot of the time at LCC pre-O'Connor, especially on the first score of the game. He has a "make them stop us" mentality and I think believes that they will be able to gain the 2 1/2 yards needed for a 2 pt conversion at least half the time (which would balance out if the PAT were to be made 100% of the time).

First score (6-0): Go for 2 and try to gain an early edge.

2nd score (12-0): You're up 2 TDs either way, if you believe DSJ is going to make their PATs, you have to go for 2 to try and gain back the point you missed out on.

3rd score (18-13): Kick the PAT and go up 6, or get the 2 point conversion and go up 7. I think you're the only person on the planet that think that's a bad decision at that point in the game.

As for the attempted field goal, he liked his chances of making the FG more than picking up 6 yards on 4th and 6. After not converting on the 1st 2 pt conversion, I thought all of those kick-it-or-not decisions were good decisions.

You're mad at him for trying a short FG and also mad at him for not kicking PATs:

Didn't DSJ just miss an PAT? I don't remember them going for 2 or seeing any reason for them too, but I could be mistaken. Seeing as how DSJ is batting 50% at PAT and if you miss a 2pt conversion and DSJ scores, you GUARANTEE yourself a loss, I don't think it's far fetched to see the logic in kicking a PAT to put yourself up 6. At that stage, I can see somebody making the call either way. Going for 2 every time because you think your PAT kicker sucks, yet still having the...I don't even know what....to call him out there to line up for a 20 something yard FG really doesn't make sense...then he ran the onside kick to boot.

Like I said initially, they are not a Kenton or Coldwater in terms of offensive explosiveness, which is what you need if you want to play that whole 2pt every time ideology. As it stands right now, LCC is nothing more than a poorly executed option oriented run team that doesn't score 3/4 the time they have the ball like Kenton did in previous years.

[Rd2Glory]

jeffcat-bucki, on 26 August 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Didn't DSJ just miss an PAT? I don't remember them going for 2 or seeing any reason for them too, but I could be mistaken. Seeing as how DSJ is batting 50% at PAT and if you miss a 2pt conversion and DSJ scores, you GUARANTEE yourself a loss, I don't think it's far fetched to see the logic in kicking a PAT to put yourself up 6. At that stage, I can see somebody making the call either way. Going for 2 every time because you think your PAT kicker sucks, yet still having the...I don't even know what....to call him out there to line up for a 20 something yard FG really doesn't make sense...then he ran the onside kick to boot.

Like I said initially, they are not a Kenton or Coldwater in terms of offensive explosiveness, which is what you need if you want to play that whole 2pt every time ideology. As it stands right now, LCC is nothing more than a poorly executed option oriented run team that doesn't score 3/4 the time they have the ball like Kenton did in previous years.

To each their own I suppose. Personally, I would rather leave it up to my guys to get the 2 pts than count on their guys to miss the PAT.

I don't think he went for it everytime because he thought his kicker sucked. He did the first time because he thought they could get 2 1/2 yards and gain an extra advantage. He went for 2 the next two times because the situation called for it. If anything, him attempting a short field goal should validate these claims.

Finally, in order to go with the "go for two every time" approach, you don't have to have a potent offense, you just need to be able to convert 50% of the time and anything over that is an added bonus. If you disagree with that statement then you don't understand basic math.

[osufan512]

jeffcat-bucki, on 26 August 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Didn't DSJ just miss an PAT? I don't remember them going for 2 or seeing any reason for them too, but I could be mistaken. Seeing as how DSJ is batting 50% at PAT and if you miss a 2pt conversion and DSJ scores, you GUARANTEE yourself a loss, I don't think it's far fetched to see the logic in kicking a PAT to put yourself up 6. At that stage, I can see somebody making the call either way. Going for 2 every time because you think your PAT kicker sucks, yet still having the...I don't even know what....to call him out there to line up for a 20 something yard FG really doesn't make sense...then he ran the onside kick to boot.

Like I said initially, they are not a Kenton or Coldwater in terms of offensive explosiveness, which is what you need if you want to play that whole 2pt every time ideology. As it stands right now, LCC is nothing more than a poorly executed option oriented run team that doesn't score 3/4 the time they have the ball like Kenton did in previous years.

1st of all, LCC is NOT an option based offense and I can't even figure out where you would assume such a thing. I have never seen LCC run anything remotely close to an option the past 5 years (since Cooper stopped using the 2 backs approach). Heck, I have never even seen a zone read play from them while in the shotgun. And, LCC scored on 1/3rd the possessions, and had 3 turnovers, and allowed St. Johns to start 5 or 6 drives LCC territory (clearly a recipe for a loss) and according to the paper DSJ had a 1st down play 4 different times inside the LCC 13 yard line and only scored on 1 of those trips. All Against a team that has played in 3 state championship games, with 2 titles, and another semi final appearance in 4 years. And the only thing everyone can find to talk about is how LCC looked bad, they are not good and the coaches decision making was poor. Please how about someone give credit to the LCC defense for stepping up against a team that typically would bury anyone by 40+ points given all those opportunities. I'm sure they realize they didn't play well, but they found a way to win and I believe there is something to be said for that

[Hound Dog]

Rd2Glory, on 26 August 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Going for 2 is something Cooper did all the time at Grove and a lot of the time at LCC pre-O'Connor, especially on the first score of the game. He has a "make them stop us" mentality and I think believes that they will be able to gain the 2 1/2 yards needed for a 2 pt conversion at least half the time (which would balance out if the PAT were to be made 100% of the time).

You should know your facts before running your mouth..that statement about what he did at Grove is completely false. He rarely went for 2. His kickers at Grove were successful at least 80% of the time.

[Rd2Glory]

Hound Dog, on 27 August 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

You should know your facts before running your mouth..that statement about what he did at Grove is completely false. He rarely went for 2. His kickers at Grove were successful at least 80% of the time.

Is this coming from the guy that went on a rant earlier in the summer about vouchers and claimed MyKale Rogers was one of them? (he was baptized at St. Charles, has been at St. Charles/LCC since preschool, and his mom went to LCC).

Maybe it was only against bad teams then. I seem to remember Blaine Maag bowling over the LCC defense for a 2 pt conversion a number of times.

Regardless, it's not something new for him as he often did this pre-O'Connor (and that was with one of the better kickers in the area in Vandemark). I'm not sure why we're talking so much about his PAT/2 pt conversion decision making so much though.

Edited by Rd2Glory, 27 August 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[osufan512]

Rd2Glory, on 27 August 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Is this coming from the guy that went on a rant earlier in the summer about vouchers and claimed MyKale Rogers was one of them? (he was baptized at St. Charles, has been at St. Charles/LCC since preschool, and his mom went to LCC).

Maybe it was only against bad teams then. I seem to remember Blaine Maag bowling over the LCC defense for a 2 pt conversion a number of times.

Regardless, it's not something new for him as he often did this pre-O'Connor (and that was with one of the better kickers in the area in Vandemark). I'm not sure why we're talking so much about his PAT/2 pt conversion decision making so much though.

His dad Michael Rogers Sr. is also an LCC alum.

I also remember a game where LCC/Grove played and they went for 2 at least twice. Once on a fake and once on an offensive play. Final score was 26-0 I believe.

Edited by osufan512, 27 August 2012 - 09:28 AM.

[clutch]

Hound Dog, on 27 August 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

You should know your facts before running your mouth..that statement about what he did at Grove is completely false. He rarely went for 2. His kickers at Grove were successful at least 80% of the time.

"Running your mouth" ?

Why so bitter? Lol

[beechjet]

Rd2Glory, on 26 August 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

When LCC scored to go up 18-13, they could've tried to kick a field goal to go up 6 or went for 2 to go up 7. My guess is that Cooper thought that, if DSJ were to score, they would make their PAT because they had a pretty good kicker. So, going up 6 would be as useful as being up 5. It's better to put your destiny in your own hands and make it a 7 point lead than to rely on their kicker missing if they scored.

Cooper thinking? Now there's an open door to a whole other thread.

[Rd2Glory]

beechjet, on 27 August 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Cooper thinking? Now there's an open door to a whole other thread.

What an insightful response...

[jeffcat-bucki]

Rd2Glory, on 27 August 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

To each their own I suppose. Personally, I would rather leave it up to my guys to get the 2 pts than count on their guys to miss the PAT.

I don't think he went for it everytime because he thought his kicker sucked. He did the first time because he thought they could get 2 1/2 yards and gain an extra advantage. He went for 2 the next two times because the situation called for it. If anything, him attempting a short field goal should validate these claims.

Finally, in order to go with the "go for two every time" approach, you don't have to have a potent offense, you just need to be able to convert 50% of the time and anything over that is an added bonus. If you disagree with that statement then you don't understand basic math.

And when your offense isn't potent like LCC's offense wasn't potent, then it obviously isn't very effective considering they didn't covert a single 2pt conversion. I can respect your stance on the rest.

[Rd2Glory]

jeffcat-bucki, on 27 August 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

And when your offense isn't potent like LCC's offense wasn't potent, then it obviously isn't very effective considering they didn't covert a single 2pt conversion. I can respect your stance on the rest.

I don't know. I think Huffman was definitely in bounds on the one in the right corner (right in front of me), and he was just barely out of bounds on the one in the left corner. They were a bad call and a couple of inches from being 2 for 3. I question the play calls (see: not running Washington right at them) more than the decision to go for 2. Either way, you don't need to be Kenton. A 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust type team is likely to pick up that 2 1/2 yards at least half the time, making it a viable option.

I can see your point, but I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one and leave it at that.

Edited by Rd2Glory, 27 August 2012 - 02:02 PM.