411 replies to this topic

[Putnam County Lady]

Yikes I think I hit a nerve! He was right I did write the wrong write but I thought I was right when I wrote right! I hate it when I'm not "write"!!

[paperboy]

[crickets]

[Dman]

Putnam County Lady, on 03 April 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Yikes I think I hit a nerve! He was right I did write the wrong write but I thought I was right when I wrote right! I hate it when I'm not "write"!!

Think is the correct word this time. Though I must admit that the inability to demonstrate correct grammar is a mild annoyance for those of us who value thought coherence. I acquiesce to the certainty that those unable to contend in the deliberation always attain delusive satisfaction via personal insult.

The merit of my discourse is not conditional. It is not my responsibility to defend Jefferson, Coach Smith, or his son from allegations...true or false. Their actions are subject to the very same scrutiny as society assigns others. Should Jefferson, our staff, and our players ever emulate Ada/Hiland/Elida through their actions, then their accomplishments and means to achieve those accomplishments deserve vetting too.

Society judges accomplishments based upon the difficulty of the endeavor. If you have a disagreement with this empirical phenomenon, I'm interested in that argument. Absent such ability to address this proposition, it is safe to assume that your participation in this encounter is not topic motivated.

[paperboy]

Soooo, would you consider this multiple-title winning school (which won with some open-enrollers) tainted or not? I'm very interested in your answer.

[Dman]

My opinions as to which "transfers" are "justified" is not relevant... I support transfers all the time. This kid at Vanlue should find a new place as soon as possible. The Cory Rawson to Ada made sense and was a classic dookie sandwich to a school that should have hired his dad.

The argument is not that all transfers are wrong. There are too many unique situations...

The argument is simply that those schools who gain their success without external assistance deserve and recieve more accolade from society at large. The fact that these situations represent a minority at Columbus makes their accomplishments even more special.

I'm left to wonder what outliers we have on the RC who are incapable of reserving additional respect for programs who travel the more difficult course. Rather than observe this debate as a slight to the modern program, observe it as a prop to the traditionalists.

[Dman]

Sorry 95...this is the first I heard that information. Sounds like I used a bad example. Anyhow...the point is that I'm not against transfers in general. If a kid or parent desires to move for better opportunities...that is their right. I simply make an observation that the modern tactics of team building have weakened the accomplishment as compared to teams that still do it traditionally.

[paperboy]

Dman, on 04 April 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

I simply make an observation that the modern tactics of team building have weakened the accomplishment as compared to teams that still do it traditionally.

And I asked my question to try to get an idea of what you consider 'team building'. My point is something you admitted in your earlier post: "not that all transfers are wrong. There are too many unique situations...".

This is why I brought up the situation with the multiple state title winning team that had some open-enrollers on it. Unless you know the circumstances surrounding the open-enrollments, is it fair to assume that this school was 'team building'? I submit that it is not, but your rhetoric on this thread seems to indicate that you believe otherwise.

[tfloangel]

Dman, on 27 March 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

Fabricate much?


This quote would be a second good example of what I mean when I say the part that is a bit farcical is to watch fan reaction to these transfer situations.

This is what I've said about Hiland.

• The simple truth is that Hiland does not make Columbus this year, let alone win it, without the transfer. That is the truth without judgement.

​
From this simple statement, Hiland fan...like so many before him is left with barren discourse. There is not a simple soul alive with the most minimal of basketball knowledge that believes Hiland would have made Columbus this year without their transfer. Somehow, to the farcical fanatic the mere mention of this truth is interpreted as hate. The mere fact that one's attachment to a situation affects such fantasy is hilarious. All ability to sustain impartiality/objectivity is forfeited.

This returns to the two types/definitions of tradition prevalent in all transfer deliberation. First there is the traditional means of achieving athletic success. Second there is the traditional respect awarded to those who win. Those who benefit from circumventing the traditional means of obtaining success are the first to invoke traditional respect/accolade/praise toward their own accomplishments. This is the proverbial definition of "having your cake and eating it too." Without taking a side, it is easy to see that one cannot have it both ways. Yet that is exactly what we get every time this debate ensues. Hiland fan responds no differently than Ada, LCC, Elida, etc. They want all the glamour and glory of traditional respect but refuse to pay homage to ANY traditional means/methods. The hypocrisy of these dual positions is laughable to any reasonable/objective mind.

I was initially going to apologize for my choice of the word "hate" - but honestly, with the amount of angst you've shown towards the subject in the past several weeks, I'm choosing to stand by it now. One thing that I love to hate (and mostly hate) about online forums is the posters who so love to put their opinions out there - and very strongly - but jump down the throats of anyone who dares to put forth a differing opinion. The only reason I chose to do so initially is because no one from my neck of the woods was saying anything about the situation, and there were some blatant inaccuracies on this forum.

Let me blunt on two things:

First of all, I'm tired of you assuming opinions that I have never put out there. Where, in any case, did I imply that I thought they would have made it to state without Seger? It didn't happen. All I've asked is that credit is given where it is due to the 95% of the program that are home grown.

Secondly - You try to throw big words around hoping that it will make you come across as more intelligent when you are making small-minded comments. I honestly wish that you'd just come out and call me and my opinions a joke. You might as well have said that I'm idiotic for daring to try to present an opposing view of this story.

I really appreciate the fact that you have chosen to blatantly ignore anything that I said that was "middle of the road" or in any way sympathetic to what you see the truth to be. I don't anticipate that at this point it will change in any way, so go ahead and continue to portray me like the "ostrich with its head buried in the sand while singing the praises of the transfer-ridden program from out my a.."

Some people simply cannot handle when someone tries to voice an opinion contrary to theirs, and as a result, come across as being very narrow minded. Hopefully others, whether they agree with your take on the issue or not, can see that you are completely misconstruing my comments to fit what you want them to read.

Edited by tfloangel, 04 April 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[tfloangel]

Dman, on 04 April 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Sorry 95...this is the first I heard that information. Sounds like I used a bad example. Anyhow...the point is that I'm not against transfers in general. If a kid or parent desires to move for better opportunities...that is their right. I simply make an observation that the modern tactics of team building have weakened the accomplishment as compared to teams that still do it traditionally.

Also, why couldn't you have just responded like this to me?! I in no way argue this point.

Edited by tfloangel, 04 April 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[tfloangel]

Dman, on 04 April 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

I'm left to wonder what outliers we have on the RC who are incapable of reserving additional respect for programs who travel the more difficult course. Rather than observe this debate as a slight to the modern program, observe it as a prop to the traditionalists.

I suppose I should have just 'multi-quoted'. Too late now. I don't argue with any of these comments. I would hope you can understand that I feel attacked and that my opinions have not been given any credence - or have been read with whatever the opposite of rose colored glasses would be.

So let me ask this question - should all schools who recruit, have open enrollment, transfers, or are parochial schools be placed in the record books with an asterisk?

Or maybe the one's who do not fall into the above categories - say, after 2000 - get the asterisk by their name for following the proper channels???

Edited by tfloangel, 04 April 2012 - 02:22 PM.

[Putnam County Lady]

Tfloangel, well said!

[Dman]

tflo:

You are proving my one of my main points. "Fan reaction" is hilarious. This is not personal toward you, Hiland, or any team. It is a simple statement of sociological reality. Society respects those that take a more difficult route. This does not mean Hiland deserves no respect or Bonifant did anything wrong....or even anything I myself would not do.

I think you "get it." Many do not. At the mere mention of a simple fact that a team utilizes a transfer, many fanatics go into a crazed defense, legalities, calls for censorship, and inevitable personalization. An appopriate response based in reality is a simple acknowledgement that transfers help win games. In Hiland's case championships.

Somehow, rather than admit this simple reality, those who take the opposing view exert exorbitant energies deflecting this simple truth. When one gets so frustrated that their only course of rebuttal is to argue theoretical possibilities about what my team and coach might have done...this more than proves the assertion.

Transfers help many teams, not just Hiland, win games and championships. We are long past the time where fans need to make efforts to hide this reality...even if doing so will decrease the humor value for those of us who enjoy watching fanatics concoct an alternative reality where traditional sports values (hard work, discipline, team work, etc) are the primary causative agent. While traditional sports values are indeed important...there is not a coach or informed fan around who would not rather take their chances with a Bonifant...versus building a team the old way.

Edited by Dman, 05 April 2012 - 07:21 AM.

[Putnam County Lady]

You keep putting others down by comments they make on this tread.  In your own post about a year ago you are the one who tried to persuade the CG board of education that Jefferson coach was the better fit for the Grove basketball job and that as a bonus he would bring his talented son with him. I just reminded you of it to show your comments were contradicting.  Then I’m the one you make out as the one who doesn’t get it.
Also you say nothing about transfers that move in to a district and create problems and cause teams to be less successful than they should be.
Since you have the dictionary out explain what you mean by a transfer.  Are kids transfers when they move in as a first grader, or when they are in junior high, or only when they are in high school??? I’m sure Jefferson has kids transferring in and out throughout the year every year.  Many may never play sports or aren’t all that good at sports. Check your elementary, junior high, and high school rosters at the start of the year and then at the end.
Having a only 3 or 4 win season can distort ones view of how much transfers help a team win and make them jealous of the success of others.
 
 
 

[tfloangel]

Dman, on 05 April 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

tflo:

You are proving my one of my main points. "Fan reaction" is hilarious. This is not personal toward you, Hiland, or any team. It is a simple statement of sociological reality. Society respects those that take a more difficult route. This does not mean Hiland deserves no respect or Bonifant did anything wrong....or even anything I myself would not do.

I think you "get it." Many do not. At the mere mention of a simple fact that a team utilizes a transfer, many fanatics go into a crazed defense, legalities, calls for censorship, and inevitable personalization. An appopriate response based in reality is a simple acknowledgement that transfers help win games. In Hiland's case championships.

Somehow, rather than admit this simple reality, those who take the opposing view exert exorbitant energies deflecting this simple truth. When one gets so frustrated that their only course of rebuttal is to argue theoretical possibilities about what my team and coach might have done...this more than proves the assertion.

While traditional sports values are indeed important...there is not a coach or informed fan around who would not rather take their chances with a Bonifant...versus building a team the old way.

Ok, fair enough. But I still have a few issues to address, the first of which being that - at least from the Hiland side of things - I AM the only one who is posting in relation to this issue. So while you say its not personal towards me, how else could this not be directed towards me?

Secondly - I consider myself to be an intelligent person. That being said, I read the second bolded section about three times before coming to this conclusion: it makes no sense. Just say what you want to say in language people will understand. It makes you more accessible (as opposed to condescending) I'll paraphrase: People want to deflect attention away from transfers so they start talking "coulda, shoulda, woulda's" about either theirs' or other teams in hopes of changing the subject. No one wants to have to decipher your assertions We have enough of that in our day jobs.

Thirdly - You sound like a politician. You make the statement of the third bolded section ALONG with your initial blastings and it makes people aware of the fact that you are in fact willing to consider both sides of an issue from the get go, rather than having to back track and make statements such as "...there is not a coach or informed fan around who would not rather take their chances with a Bonifant...versus building a team the old way" after the fact. They lose credibility at this point.

I will credit you here... you are willing, after a point, to consider other view points. And don't think that I don't understand that this is called an opinion forum for a reason.

Edited by tfloangel, 05 April 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[tfloangel]

Putnam County Lady, on 04 April 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Tfloangel, well said!

Thanks

[tfloangel]

whatdo, fair enough... Guess he got me a little fired up

[Dman]

Tflo:

It is difficult to be direct with upset posters asking a bunch of different questions and taking the conversation in many different directions. You have the luxury of carrying on one conversation...for you it s Hiland. You ask me to be direct...I oblige.

Hiland does not make it to state, let alone win it without Bonifant. I can't be more direct.

Arlington...did not use transfers. Arlington's traditional path was more difficult, therefore probably worthy of a bit more respect. This does not mean Hiland is bad, a bunch of cheats, etc. It means Arlington's path was more difficult than Hiland because Arlington did not have the good fortune of Bonfant falling into their lap.

Edited by Dman, 05 April 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[Dman]

Putnam County Gal:

I don't take you serious because your purpose on this thread has nothing to do with Vanlue, your position on transfers etc. You are posting to personally discredit me, Jefferson, Coach Smith, etc. Your next statement on your position about the difficulty Arlington has versus a transfer assisted team...will be your first.

I am on vacation and am stuck with an iPad. It will not let me link to your posts this moment. When I get back we can look at your posts about the Columbus Grove opening. The one where you gleefully post congratulations to the new coach and brag about how Grove has a history of hiring less experienced coaches. We can then compare that with your current post on the Girl's thread in the Elida opening... The one where you now want to pretend "experience" matters.

The point being that your feigned interest in this topic is as laughable as your credibility on coach search advce. While we are all calling for a new directness...why don't you cut the crap and just say you don't like me, Jefferson, Coach Smith, etc. That way we have one less disinterested and I'll informed conversationalist to deal with.

Edited by Dman, 05 April 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[flounder]

Dman, on 05 April 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Putnam County Gal:

I don't take you serious because your purpose on this thread has nothing to do with Vanlue, your position on transfers etc. You are posting to personally discredit me, Jefferson, Coach Smith, etc. Your next statement on your position about the difficulty Arlington has versus a transfer assisted team...will be your first.

I am on vacation and am stuck with an iPad. It will not let me link to your posts this moment. When I get back we can look at your posts about the Columbus Grove opening. The one where you gleefully post congratulations to the new coach and brag about how Grove has a history of hiring less experienced coaches. We can then compare that with your current post on the Girl's thread in the Elida opening... The one where you now want to pretend "experience" matters.

The point being that your feigned interest in this topic is as laughable as your credibility on coach search advce. While we are all calling for a new directness...why don't you cut the crap and just say you don't like me, Jefferson, Coach Smith, etc. That way we have one less disinterested and I'll informed conversationalist to deal with.

Ouch......now that is telling it like it is!!!!!