299 replies to this topic

[paynepanthers]

lepiota, on 29 February 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

He probably figured he could sit him because they were playing Shawnee. Would he have done it against Defiance?

Huh! The student is on active suspension and is not permitted to participate in athletic contests during that time. If the student had been on any sort of suspension during the Defiance game he would not have played.

Edited by paynepanthers, 29 February 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[Maltese Falcon]

paynepanthers, on 29 February 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

Huh! The student is on active suspension and is not permitted to participate in athletic contests during that time. If the student had been on any sort of suspension during the Defiance game he would not have played.

"Active" suspension..........does that mean he can't attend school but he can go to practice the next 2 days? Thereby finding a way around the team rule (at least most teams have a rule) if you miss a practice(s), you don't play?

[Dman]

Quote

Would he have done it against Defiance?

No way of knowing... We can make a good guess about motives by seeing how the current suspension plays out. If he sits the kid for the next 3 games, safe to say that discipline is an important factor. If the kid only misses one easy game AGAIN...

If one game was the punishment for a one day school suspension...we can only imagine that consistency dictates the repeat offense and 3 day school suspension will demand a much greater punishment than 1 game this time.

Edited by Dman, 29 February 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[paynepanthers]

Dman, on 29 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

No way of knowing... We can make a good guess about motives by seeing how the current suspension plays out. If he sits the kid for the next 3 games, safe to say that discipline is an important factor. If the kid only misses one easy game AGAIN...

If one game was the punishment for a one day school suspension...we can only imagine that consistency dictates the repeat offense and 3 day school suspension will demand a much greater punishment than 1 game this time.

It seems to me that if the school has policies and procedures in place for these types of events, and I am not aware of any school that doesn't, shouldn't the people involved in that process be the ones to make the decision that meets whatever criteria that they have established? Student suspensions aren't rare and this one only draws attention because the student is also an athlete.

[paynepanthers]

Maltese Falcon, on 29 February 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

"Active" suspension..........does that mean he can't attend school but he can go to practice the next 2 days? Thereby finding a way around the team rule (at least most teams have a rule) if you miss a practice(s), you don't play?

Active (from Webster's)
adjective
1.
engaged in action; characterized by energetic work, participation, etc.; busy: an active life.
2.
being in a state of existence, progress, or motion: active hostilities.
3.
involving physical effort and action: active sports.
4.
having the power of quick motion; nimble: active as a gazelle.
5.
characterized by action, motion, volume, use, participation, etc.: an active market in wheat; an active list of subscribers.

*and no the student cannot practice during an active suspension.

Edited by paynepanthers, 29 February 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[flounder]

I think what makes matters worse is the fact that this student/athlete has been in trouble before!!!!!!

[Dman]

Quote

It seems to me that if the school has policies and procedures in place for these types of events, and I am not aware of any school that doesn't, shouldn't the people involved in that process be the ones to make the decision that meets whatever criteria that they have established?

I agree for the school punishment. It seems that the school has done their job.

Now the question is whether the coach will enforce dicipline too. It seems to me that if the coach has policies and procedures in place for these types of events, and I am not aware of any coach that doesn't, it should be a simple matter of the coach enforcing his policy.

Nobody has provided us with the team rules and policies. Therefore we are left to speculate. Since a one day school suspension was met with an additional one game basketball suspension from the coach, we can suspect that this student is looking at at LEAST 3 games off for a 3-day school suspension...particularly since he is a repeat offender. Anything less is certain to raise suspicion as to whether rules and policies are legitimately enforced or weakly written.

I've no clue what is going to happen. It looks to me that the Elida district has handled this case by the book, at both the educational and extracurricular level. I merely opine that for those who surmise the current discipline will involve only a one game suspension...they will (or should) be disappointed. I've never known a set of rules and policies that don't involve progressive disciplinary action for repeat offenses in ANY setting. The school has gone from a one day suspension to 3 day suspension...for example. We can reasonably assume that the Coach will (or should) progress his punishment as well.

[paynepanthers]

It should not matter if it is one game suspension or a 50 game suspension as long as the punishment fits within the parameters of the Elida disciplinary code for students involved in Elida athletics. Those guidelines would have been presented to any student participating in athletics prior to the beginning of a sports season. It seems that coaches and adminstrators are put in a no win situation with some who feel they are the sole aribiters of how student-athletes should be disciplined. Will there be students who are thought to have been disciplined too harshly? Yes. Will there be students who are thought to have been disciplined too leniently? Yes. I have no idea wether or not the student in question will participate in the next game for Elida. If he does or doesn't, it will be based upon agreed upon standards between the student, the school and the coach and or athletic department.

Edited by paynepanthers, 29 February 2012 - 04:24 PM.

[slice slice baby]

here's the links to the extracurricular handbook & the athletic code acknowledgement form that has to be signed by student athlete & parents.....too busy to read thru it all to pick out the related material myself..sorry.

handbook:
http://home.elida.k1...202011-2012.pdf

form:
http://home.elida.k1...uct%2011-12.pdf

[Rocketman]

He will play.............(maybe)

[slice slice baby]

paynepanthers, on 29 February 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

It should not matter if it is one game suspension or a 50 game suspension as long as the punishment fits within the parameters of the Elida disciplinary code for students involved in Elida athletics. Those guidelines would have been presented to any student participating in athletics prior to the beginning of a sports season. It seems that coaches and adminstrators are put in a no win situation with some who feel they are the sole aribiters of how student-athletes should be disciplined. Will there be students who are thought to have been disciplined too harshly? Yes. Will there be students who are thought to have been disciplined too leniently? Yes. I have no idea wether or not the student in question will participate in the next game for Elida. If he does or doesn't, it will be based upon agreed upon standards between the student, the school and the coach and or athletic department.

agreed....from what li'l i did skim through, these guidelines have been established before the season began, so i'd assume that's what discipline was provided.

[Dman]

Quote

Those guidelines would have been presented to any student participating in athletics prior to the beginning of a sports season. It seems that coaches and adminstrators are put in a no win situation with some who feel they are the sole aribiters of how student-athletes should be disciplined.

Most coaches indeed have a progressive team rules that are signed by players and parents before participation. I would assume that is the case here. If not...there should be.

Quote

I have no idea wether or not the student in question will participate in the next game for Elida. If he does or doesn't, it will be based upon agreed upon standards between the student, the school and the coach and or athletic department.

And fair minds will assume that offenses like stealing and cheating will be met with a disciplinary action greater than sitting out the Shawnee game. We should expect that since the 1 game suspension has not changed the deviant behavior, a more stringent discipline will be applied this time. Absent a more progressive disciplinary action, reasonable people will and should question the integrity of the guidelines and/or the adult enforcement. We are not talking about coming late to practice. We are talking stealing and cheating. These offenses illuminate the very integrity of the individual, team, and school. Schools and coaches for which integrity is an important value, WILL take this seriously.

If Elida rules have been written in such a way that a thief and a cheat can skirt by with just a one game suspension for two serious issues...only weeks apart...then a reasonable person can and will conclude that Elida rules are too soft. If this proves to be true, and the said player is indeed in uniform for the next game...it is time that the Elida school board take a look at what their "athletic" participation rules are about.

We have a lost soul who has been "skirting" rules his entire life, if this thread is to be believed. I would hope some adult somewhere might put this kid's development at a higher priority than winning a few basketball games. Knowing that a one game suspension has already failed to change the deviant behavior, I'd be interested in how those who support another lenient consequence believe it will work this time? Are the team victories more important than teaching this kid the need to follow rules, respect property, respect authority, etc?

Edited by Dman, 29 February 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[RealitySpeaks]

Prison time doesn't seem to work. What makes you believe game suspensions will?

[Maltese Falcon]

Elida probably won't punish the kid any more than they already have.............they need him to win from here on out. Not to mention previous punishments/ expulsions from other schools obviously haven't worked. Plus HS basketball is the high point fg this guys life, it's going to go downhill for him, steep and fast, once the season ends............and in with the law dealing with him as an adult he will face consequences.

The biggest problem with this is the precedent it is setting........for now on any Elida athlete that steals/ cheats among the numerous things in this kids file that have been swept under the rug, will expect a slap on the wrist for offense #1,2 and 3...............

[Rocketman]

Maltese Falcon, on 29 February 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

....for now on any Elida athlete that steals/ cheats among the numerous things in this kids file that have been swept under the rug, will expect a slap on the wrist for offense #1,2 and 3.......4......5..

This thread is probably one of the reasons that the EHS AD hasn't gotten back with me concerning "Media Passes" for the upcoming tourney games

[LimaJock]

Rocketman, on 29 February 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

This thread is probably one of the reasons that the EHS AD hasn't gotten back with me concerning "Media Passes" for the upcoming tourney games

This should not happen. They are actually hosting an OHSAA event. Should not be allowed to happen without serious consequences.... oh.... never mind.

LJ

[paynepanthers]

The two suspensions from Elida were based on classroom actions.

Edited by paynepanthers, 29 February 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[Knight time]

Media pass???? A rumor mill website is hardly media. 4 pages of talk about a h.s. Kid. I'm shocked his name hasn't been mentioned yet.
The Rocket is learning....

[lepiota]

Bone to pick much?

[clutch]

lepiota, on 29 February 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

Bone to pick much?

I think the more modern term is: "you mad bro"? Lol