76 replies to this topic

[Just..Sayin....]

What part of SENIOR NIGHT do you not understand? That parent had every right to be upset! If that senior chose to sit the bench all season and still be a part of a team, then what the hell does a couple of minutes starting off their SENIOR NIGHT gonn hurt? I love to win, but I also LOVE TRADITION!!!! GO Seniors!! By the way- Continental started their non- starting SENIORS!! It was great!! Just Sayin......

[Maltese Falcon]

mathfreak, on 22 February 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

I can see this parent's frustration. It is not as if they are asking that the seniors be allowed to start every game, just this last game in their home gym. I guarantee that 10 years from now, they will not remember the final score of this game, but they would have remembered having their names called over the PA and meeting their senior teammates at center court one last time. As far as subbing in, I must admit I am not aware of the talent difference between the seniors and the underclassmen, but some of the seniors might surprise, come out inspired, and play well. How often is a game lost in the first 3-4 minutes?

I know one of the primary focuses of varsity sports is supposed to be winning, but I think that winning can still be accomplished many different ways.

Most places do this during the pregame before the starting lineups are announced, usually complete with flowers and/ or balloons, recognizing the seniors for there 4 years. This and starting seniors on their last night, along with the most recent gesture..........allowing a player that has been injured to score in her last home game. This seems to happen by and large more foten on the girls side of things than the boys.

I know of at least 2 instances where a visiting team allowed a player on the home team that has been injured to score in her last home game and just start the game 2-0........and the visiting team lost by 1 point.

[Maltese Falcon]

Just..Sayin...., on 22 February 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

What part of SENIOR NIGHT do you not understand? That parent had every right to be upset! If that senior chose to sit the bench all season and still be a part of a team, then what the hell does a couple of minutes starting off their SENIOR NIGHT gonn hurt? I love to win, but I also LOVE TRADITION!!!! GO Seniors!! By the way- Continental started their non- starting SENIORS!! It was great!! Just Sayin......

What if a team has more than 5 seniors?

[flounder]

Actually, this one is tough to call....

On the seniors side of it....these girls have put in many hours of hard work...not just this past season, but the past 4 seasons.....it appears the outcome of the game did not figure in tournament seeds or a league championship so is it really so bad that they have a 'token' start in the final game of the regular season......and that is what it is...a 'token' start to basically bring attention and show appreciation to senior girls who have made a commitment to their team, school, coach, and themselves by sticking it out until graduation.....this is certainly a feat in today's society where quitting in sports is the norm......I really wonder if that start is as important to the senior girls as it is to the parents.....

On the coach's side of it......well, as a coach you want to win, win, win......nothing wrong with that because in today's society, that is what life is about......I really do not think that these senior girls starting and playing a couple minutes at the start of the game would have had a big impact on the outcome of the game.......but, if this coach wants to turn things around, and it appears he has to a certain degree, then you do things his way.....it's called discipline........oh, how many hate that word, but without it, you cannot have a winning program......how long is it going to take for the parents of Allen East to realize that their sports programs are the doormat of the NWC, and things must change in order to starting becoming respectable again......it hasn't been that many years ago when the Mustangs ruled the NWC in girls basketball and boys football.......wake up people....as Vince would say......Hello....

Now, as a parent, what the he!! were you thinking putting your letter in the Lima News......sheeeesh...I am embarrassed for you....

Also, if I was one of those senior girls, I think I would not have wanted the start.....I mean, I would get all sweaty....my makeup would get all messed up and start running...I would have to take my earings out, and I know there would be more.....all for a 'token' start....I really don't know if it would be worth it!!!!!!

The last paragraph was my attempt to add humor to a very sad...no win situation!!!!!

[chalk_it_up]

Having been at the game, I can say with 100% certainty that that coach made the right decision. After they beat LCC, their entire fan base jumped and cheered like they just won the state title. Their team was doing the same thing. And they should have been extremely excited because they played a really nice game and won decisively.

Allen East's best player, if I recall, is a sophomore. One look at her stats cleary shows that the team needs to have her out there. She averages something like 13, 8. and 3, which lead the team. Furthermore, she get to the line and actually makes them, something that is gold in girl's basketball. A coach's job is to win basketball games while presenting the school in a positive light. To win basketball games, you need to have your best players on the court as much as possible. Obviously that would include this sophomore at the start of any game. All of the girls who care about the team want to win as well, and I'm sure they'd want this player out there as well.

Senior Night is great because it recognizes all of the seniors, good or bad, for all of the time and effort they've dedicated to the program. They get to walk across the court with their parents and get recognized over the PA. It's great because the fans get to show their appreciation to the girls too, especially the ones that don't play a ton, or at all. Fans can always cheer for the girls on the court, but it's important to recognize those players who don't get to directly contribute on gameday.

However, that does not mean that those girls don't contribute to the success that the team has. Those seniors who don't get to play still practice every day. Every coach knows that practice is where you improve and games are where you showcase your game. Practice is vital. Without practice players, the girls playing on game day wouldn't improve much, or at all, throughout the season. It's a great teacher for those girls that practice and never play about what it takes to build a successful team. It doesn't matter whether it's basketball or at the office. Sure, the trial lawyer may get all the credit for his decisive closing argument speech, but I'm sure there were several lawyers working on the case with him, building up the evidence. Just as in basketball, the girls on the court will get more credit, but they know firsthand that they wouldn't be doing it without the players they practice against every day.

What those seniors will remember is that they were part of a team who knocked off a pretty good LCC team and the environment that it was in. Those girls were so excited in the locker room, screaming "We just beat LCC!" (we could hear in the hallways, lol). All of those girls who weren't playing were just as excited as the girls who played all night, because they all knew they contributed to that big win. They didn't need a token courtesy start to tell them that.

All East would be one of the favorites to win the NWC next year I'd imagine, as they were young and pretty talented this year. Closing the season on that kind of emotional high note will undoubtedly prepare them well for their Sectional Final game as well.

[Ihatesoccer]

highschool coach is to set morale examples ???? your contract is not renewed by morale examples its by wins.

and if you want morales what would it show if coach started all seniors and lost ? that all hard work by younger girl does not mean anything.

morales are the other girls put in more time to be better. but that OK we started seniors!!!

the seniors knew where they stood with the team they could have not going out.

they could have cut girls would that make them or parents happy? NO

A good team needs good subs so what if they are seniors big Question are the seniors good leaders and role models?

[Mysterio]

Just..Sayin...., on 22 February 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

What part of SENIOR NIGHT do you not understand? That parent had every right to be upset! If that senior chose to sit the bench all season and still be a part of a team, then what the hell does a couple of minutes starting off their SENIOR NIGHT gonn hurt? I love to win, but I also LOVE TRADITION!!!! GO Seniors!! By the way- Continental started their non- starting SENIORS!! It was great!! Just Sayin......

Sorry but I'm just not in that boat with tradition. I'm always the type of person who want's to start something new or try different things. I know to some people tradition is very important but it doesn't have to be for everyone. To me traditions are overrated. I just feel that all it means is the way we believe things should be done and we are all meant to believe different things. Even to the ones that follow tradition, look what happens when you don't follow a certain tradition and good things happen? People forget about tradition and the excitement rolls in.

Edited by Mysterio, 22 February 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Pulitzer]

I think it probably depends on where your program is, and what kind of player that senior is.

I can understand that Allen East's coach is trying to rebuild a program and that every game and every potential win is huge. If you're an already established program, then maybe you start that nornally bench-sitting senior one time as a thank you for helping keep the program strong.

What about the player? Does she bust her butt in practice every day to make her teammates better? Show good leadership? Never complain about her playing time? Then give her a thank you and let her start one game. On the other hand, if she's a slug then don't start her.

[Common Sense]

Bottom line is that it's the coach's decision. Is this a first year coach? Not sure how "tradition" has anything to do with it. If it's the same coach they've had for 5 years, and every year they start seniors on senior night, I guess you may have a gripe.

[JimBucks]

Coach's Decision, end of story, unless of course the author has more girls in the pipeline...then we can revisit it every year!

[Sportsjock]

Also I know for fact that this isnt a girl that has played for all 4 years.

[charliesheen]

Wow, I have a hard time believing some of you are agreeing with the letter-writer. When did high school sports becoming "everybody plays and is happy?". When I was in school, HS was when you gave up the "everybody plays" attitude that was present in junior high and your local rec leagues and started playing "real" sports....meaning, playing to win. I'm sorry, but if Allen East's biggest and best "tradition" is that the Seniors get to start whether they've earned it or not, then right there you understand the mentality of the program in the past.

I don't care if the team is starting 5 freshmen. The last couple games of the regular season are the first couple games before the tourney starts. I also don't care if it "meant nothing" regarding tourney draw or league standings. Starting with the first game of the tourney, every team is basically back to 0-0....and we've all seen some strange things happen during the sectional.....upsets happen, and if a coach feels that playing his regulars at the end of the regular season gives his team the best chance to win a tourney game....THEN THAT'S WHAT THE COACH SHOULD DO!!!! If the senior girl deserved to start, she'd have been starting.....first game of the year....or last, it's HIGH SCHOOL!!!

All that being said, I really can't believe the Lima News printed this letter. Absolutely no reason for it to be in the paper or on their website other than to draw readers/viewers to their paper or their site. A cheap way to get publicity if you ask me. Stuff like this is why I haven't bought a Lima News or read their website in 5+ years.

[Mysterio]

Common Sense, on 22 February 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Bottom line is that it's the coach's decision. Is this a first year coach? Not sure how "tradition" has anything to do with it. If it's the same coach they've had for 5 years, and every year they start seniors on senior night, I guess you may have a gripe.

I believe its the coach's 2nd year. And your right bottom line its the coach's decision. You play to win the game. People tend to forget that there is always something in stake or on the line. Which is pride and confidence. Why wouldnt you play to win your last home game/regular season game? Tournament is just around the corner and I would think most coaches would want their team ready to go with a load of confidence. My opinion of senior night: You recognize the seniors before the varisty game and then play ball. Tradition or not no senior has to necessarily start because its suppose to be "their night." Very rarely does this even happen as most seniors usually at least get to start or play a good amount of time, so it doesn't really matter. For the ones that don't, is it really going to make a big difference if you haven't play much all season long and then just because you are a senior you think you get to start based on certain traditions? Sorry I just don't think so. Bottom line again, coach's decision. I'm ok with it and thought he handled it well, end of story.

Edited by Mysterio, 23 February 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[paperboy]

Victorian, on 22 February 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

I have never heard of another school starting the seniors on senior night....

Seriously? I see it all the time, especially with MAC teams.

No matter which side of the debate you fall on, I would hope that everyone can agree that writing a letter to the editor about the situation is about the worst thing that could have been done.

[Mysterio]

paperboy, on 23 February 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

Seriously? I see it all the time, especially with MAC teams.

No matter which side of the debate you fall on, I would hope that everyone can agree that writing a letter to the editor about the situation is about the worst thing that could have been done.

There is no question about it. In the end parents act like experts. They feel as if their "son or daughter" should be the one out there on the floor. It's amazing too how parents can look like complete idiots too when something like this happens, for instance the letter to the editor. I'm not saying all parents are like this because they definitely are not, its mainly just the few.

[gamekeeper]

To the moral comment: Aren't most coaches teachers, if I understand you right then. They should only teach the bright kids, Kids that struggle in school, shouldn't get any extra help because "hey life isn't going to help them either"

Cutting, only hurts for a momement, Any program with a grain, would not have a Senior on the team that couldn't play. And if there is some player that isn't very good but wanted to be part of the team and stuck it out 4 years. then 1:00 min in the beginning of the game will not cost you the Game. If they are that bad you can play stall ball and hold the ball forever to limit the posessions. You can make it right.

NO I don't argee everyone should get a trophy. I always thought you should keep score the kids do anyway. But in Basketball for them to be announced in the starting line up, and play for a min. or possibly more depending on how well they are doing, isn't going to cost you the game.

If you have 5 seniors not starting on your team anyway, then you didn't do your team justice, and make cuts early on to have the better players playing anyway.
I hate the fact Coaches don't want to be honest with a player so they let them stay on, which just gives a player hope that maybe possibly and hopefully I can get in. You want to teach the kids a Life lesson then be honest with them in beginning when they go out and tell them this sport may not be for them and they should move on. Then you want have parents being upset that their kid doesn't even get to get into the game on Senior night.

LB's Coach did it last year on Senior night never played a senior and the won by 25 points. Tell me what he lesson he taught that senior. And he only had 2 to play.

AE's Coach is a young Coach and I do think he is trying hard there. But if he wants to take the program to the next level, then he needs to make the tough decisions, in the beginning of the season.
He also needed to tell the girls if does not want to continue the tradition that senior start on senior night well in advance like in the beginning of the season not the week approaching or the day of the game. This would also help diffuse the situation.

Oh, and the parent was not saying his girl was the best player on the team, he was just saying his girl deserved to start on senior night. Again. 1:00 will not cost you a game...I don't care what any of you say.

P.S. Yeah, I might agree taking the letter to the editior might not have been the best thought, but from the discussion here then other parents at other schools have felt the same way. Funny we can complain about something the president of the United States does in an open forum, and no one gets upset. Call a Highschool Coach foolish, or stupid, or he made the wrong call, and the teeth come out.

Edited by gamekeeper, 23 February 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[gamekeeper]

Yeah but she played the two years before, She didn't play Jr. year because of previous coach.
and this year's coach let her come back this year, She told him if he wasn't going to be able to use her in the beginning of the season then cut her. But if he let her play and practice then she wanted to be able to get into games if possible. She knew there would be games that she wouldn't be able to play. He kept her.

Edited by gamekeeper, 23 February 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[effingA]

"Senior Night" - who deemed it that? It was game 20 of the regular season. I would think that coach doesn't owe any of the players a start. They CHOSE to be part of the team. They knew who the coach was when the season started. If he starts seniors on the last night great, if he doesn't, that's ok too. Life lesson - you don't get anything for just showing up! NOBODY owes you anything, you have to EARN your keep. Who wants a "token" start, when EVERYONE knows you didn't EARN it?

... making mountains out of mole hills. Why can't parents enjoy their kids being part of something? Be thankful they are participating and learning about sacrifices, teamwork, etc... Why does it always have to be "all about my kid"?