127 replies to this topic

[clarett_fan2003]

Hey go win a title in a conference where poeple actually respect your school and dont recruit like you all!!!!

There are actually people in the NWC, the ones who actually know specifics of how LCC works, who have a lot of respect for LCC and realize that they have no more of an advantage than the public schools (thanks to open enrollment). The ones who chose to be ignorant to the facts aren't worth worrying about.

[67Chevy]

I don't really care as I have no connection to either school, but doesn't it seem strange that a person from Grove would come on here and name the girl involved as "Morgan"......yet, Dave Franklin (maybe?) comes on here and claims that he it was "Courtney Diller" who was near him when the "incident" happened.

Bigdogbert (the instigator of this entire thread) is nowhere to be found.....

The two versions of what were said are completely different....I find it hard to believe you could mistake "Let's go birds...." for "Whose court is it now".....they just don't sound remotely the same.


I think you Grove fans are just growing really, really tired of losing to LCC and need to cool down, realize that these games are about the kids....not you the parents, the coaches, the "LCC system"....or whatever.

It's funny when these threads come up and you can tell that everyone in the argument is 12 years old.....sadly, in this thread, I think the offending posters are probably 3 times that age. Grow up a little folks!!!!

Edited by 67Chevy, 31 October 2007 - 01:18 PM.

[OhioDog5]

I don't really care as I have no connection to either school, but doesn't it seem strange that a person from Grove would come on here and name the girl involved as "Morgan"......yet, Dave Franklin (maybe?) comes on here and claims that he it was "Courtney Diller" who was near him when the "incident" happened.

Bigdogbert (the instigator of this entire thread) is nowhere to be found.....

The two versions of what were said are completely different....I find it hard to believe you could mistake "Let's go birds...." for "Whose court is it now".....they just don't sound remotely the same.
I think you Grove fans are just growing really, really tired of losing to LCC and need to cool down, realize that these games are about the kids....not you the parents, the coaches, the "LCC system"....or whatever.

It's funny when these threads come up and you can tell that everyone in the argument is 12 years old.....sadly, in this thread, I think the offending posters are probably 3 times that age. Grow up a little folks!!!!

Maybe if you would read the threads better you would realize he said this to Morgan Kohls. But he coached Courtney Diller in summer volleyball. Get your glasses on old man and read closer

[dawgbone]

"As I was saying this on my approach to the scores table teams were switching sides and I was walking pass Columbus Grove players. I cannot tell you which ones because I was not paying attention to who they were. My words were not meant for any one player, coach, or official."

Actually, OhioDog, he wasn't directing a statement at anybody and wasn't even sure who was passing by him when he CHEERED FOR HIS OWN TEAM. Find your own set of glasses and read the words from the horse's mouth rather than listening to gossip.

[Coach Rhoades]

Congrats T-Birds. Good luck in the Regional Finals!!!!

[OhioDog5]

I think we all know by now who he said this to. It was the same girl who was crying in the huddle after getting yelled at by Coach Franklin. Its the same girl who all the Grove fans saw Coach Franklin yell at. And getting in her face saying who's court is it now isnt cheering for your own team. Nice Try!

Goodluck at Regional T-Birds!!!

[dawgbone]

I think we all know by now who he said this to. It was the same girl who was crying in the huddle after getting yelled at by Coach Franklin. Its the same girl who all the Grove fans saw Coach Franklin yell at. And getting in her face saying who's court is it now isnt cheering for your own team. Nice Try!

Goodluck at Regional T-Birds!!!

Could it be that she was crying because they just got beat? Could it be that she was disappointed that they were losing the match? Besides, it's yesterday's news and I believe what Coach Franklin wrote rather than second-hand information from someone who obviously hates LCC and would believe anything negative about them no matter what. Sorry you lost, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

[clarett_fan2003]

The T-Birds beat #1-ranked Huron today in 4 games to advance to their first ever state appearance!

[clutch]

ohiodog5...you make yourself look foolish and immature. Quite the reputation to have.....

[Will Play for Pay and/or Glory!]

Our Bad Reputation is NOT Deserved!

Seems that this bolded and italicized text could just about summarize the general theme of every LCC discussion (football, basketball, and now volleyball). LCC-fan is constantly using the "broke no rules" or "misunderstood" defense. LCC-haters will point to questionable student-athlete obtainments performed under the guise of academics. There is a constant loop, with neither side convincing the other. I can play the accusation/rebuttal game as good as anybody, and have many a time...but will try to avoid the back/forth this time and stick to one general theme!

LCC's Reputation Is What It IS!

While we can argue back/forth about whether the reputation is deserved...I think all but the most die hard of LCC fan could admit their reputation is sullied. For arguments sake, let us go under the assumption that their reputation is an unfair label. So what...? It is still a bad reputation. Every tactic in the world to try to convince detractor's is basically useless unless and until LCC-authority is willing to take some responsibility for allowing their reputation to be sullied. This may entail utilizing the "bigger man" syndrome assuming they truly care about their reputation. Or they could either stay silent and/or play "defiant" as has been the case on this message board. While pretending to endorse the Darth Vader role is certainly a useful coping mechanism...none of this actually works at changing reputations.

The simple fact is that people are generally a forgiving bunch when the shamed party steps up and accepts responsibility for their actions that led to such shame. This forgiveness is practically universal and immediate. I realize that the gut-wrenching-pride-swallowing characteristics needed to admit wrongdoing is hard to come by...especially when the shamed party feels their actions are justified.

This is the choice LCC is left with because...LCC's Reputation Is What It IS!

Knowing LCC's Reputation Is What It IS...



You will have to excuse me if I state that I'm amazed LCC-fan/coach acts offended that their actions are under different scrutiny. That is just part of the baggage that goes along with donning a Thunderbird jersey. Much like a Haliburton employee should grow some thick skin to ward off warranted and unwarranted criticism...the same advice would bode well for all associated with LCC. Your volleyball coach will simply face more scrutiny than coaches who work for schools without such a sullied reputation. Every coach/player/parent/administrator/etc knows full well what they are getting themselves into when they choose to associate with LCC. You just set yourself up for disappointment if you take such a position (coach, fan, etc) and then expect fair treatment. Life does not work like that. As stated before, there is a way to receive forgiveness if fair treatment and universal acceptance of Thunderbird accomplishments are the goal. Otherwise, you will have to internalize your successes among yourselves and accept that many do not admire your accomplishments as would be hoped.

Using This Forum as a Sounding Board

I see the coach felt need to defend his actions on this thread. I applaud and support his right to do so. I freely admit i know nothing about the incident or Volleyball in general...so I will stipulate, for arguments sake, that this entire incident is an innocent misunderstanding.

But I can't help but notice...that in response to outside accusation (in this case Grove-fan) one coach felt need to publicly defend his actions. It is this outside action (Grove-fan) that is the catalyst. When Grove-fan sullies the reputation...then response is justified. Coach and parents join the rebuttal.

What about when LCC-administration sullies your reputation? Your volleyball girls are having a fine season that has yet to end...yet their own reputation has been unfairly tainted (stipulating posts that indicate this is a team filled with non-recruits) by a football team that is winning with a Senior-Transfer from Bath. Did the volleyball coach and parents publicly complain when LCC-administration participated in actions that, at the very least, brought the appearance of fishiness?

Excuse me why I give the opinion that the actions of your own administration and football program have done much more damage to LCC's reputation than a few disgruntled Grove posters and an emotional/excited volleyball coach. In the big picture, Grove-fan and your volleyball coach are simply not your problem. Your problem is internal.

Now LCC coach/parents...you have an opportunity to publicly display exactly where your priorities are. Will we get silence or defiance as we are accustomed to? Or will we get some real decisive commentary for change...complete with intestinal fortitude to place blame where blame belongs? It is easy to blame Grove-fan for a few relatively unimportant comments. It is much harder to look at yourself and see what role you might play in enabling your own LCC-administration to create and allow an environment in which your very own volleyball players will not get the universal accolade that they would otherwise deserve.

So there are your choices. Silence, defiance, or intestinal fortitude. Only the later changes your reputation and allows future LCC athletic success to be universally accepted without that mythical asterix. Choose either of the first two options as is typical...and LCC's Reputation Is What It IS!

[clarett_fan2003]

As I said earlier and will continue to say, once someone explains to me how LCC has any uinfair advantages over their public counterparts and exactly what LCC's football program and administration have done wrong then I will continue to be defiant. As I've challenged every poster on here and every person who brings it up in public, name me an athlete who transfered into LCC from a public school and I'll name one that did the opposite.

The thing that gets me is that the people who complain are also the people who benefit from the same type of thing. In fact, Grove fans used to complain about Bowers transfering to LCC while totallyy neglecting the fact that he was only at Grove after he transfered in from Elida. Or the fact that the NWC's own Lincolnview won a state championship in basketball while starting a player who played at LCC the year before. The point is LCC doesn't only benefit from transfers, and ignorance is the only thing that allows detractors to see otherwsie.

Is LCC perfect? No, not by any means. But are they any better or worse than any other program in the area? Absolutely not.

The thing that is bringing all the LCC hatred on right now is that they are winning. A few years ago, LCC's football program was never talked about. But now that they are winning, there are bound to be people who wish them ill and want them to fail. That's how it works.

While I hate seeing LCC ridiculed for such ridiculous things, I also enjoy to hatred in a way because it means that LCC is relevant.

[Will Play for Pay and/or Glory!]

That is fair clarett. You've every right to defend your program. I only note that defiance/denial and/or reflection techniques will do nothing to change your reputation. Whether fair or not...your school has a reputation. Other programs simply don't have the same reputation like you might hope they would. The chosen path by your administration, and majority (all?) of your fans is to kill the messenger and try to make moral equivalence arguments that they all do it...or say/do nothing at all (pretend there is no problem) Then along comes your girl's volleyball team who can never receive parallel accolade or universal acceptance for their accomplishments...because LCC-fan/administration simply have no desire to take active steps to fix their reputation. It is sad that innocents are deprived recognition due to an unwillingness from their own to take corrective action.

As you might be able to deduce...there are plenty of opportunities for LCC self-reflection into exactly why they have found their school in a position in which they always feel like they are not getting a fair shake. There are opportunities on this very thread for a school coach/fans/etc to acknowledge LCC flaws/mistakes that have put them in the role of bad guy. But I'm guessing we will just get more of the same (Grove does it, etc). You've every right to make such arguments as I could easily spend time and effort (and have plenty in the past) debating you tit for tat...but why do it again? You will not convince me...nor will I stop you from defending your school. I'm just giving the opinion that all the defensiveness, denial, and reflection in the world will NEVER lead to respect from many (majority?) who are not actual fans of LCC. Your reputation and administrative inaction in making any effort to fix such reputation says it all.

Just stop seeking approval you simply cannot and will not receive. That is the burden you must carry if you stubbornly (or justifiably depending on perspective) refuse to acknowledge internal factors that have lead to your reputation. It is what it is!

...and Dr. Phil has nothing on me!

[clutch]

Thats deep....I almost had to pull a dictionary out a couple times.

[dawgbone]

So, to make a long story short, according to Will Play, LCC should never let anyone transfer to their school, especially if that person is an athlete. Because we all know that when a person goes from a public school to a private school, it is recruiting. But when a student transfers from one public school to another, it is a transfer; it's OK and above board. That sounds fair.

To be a devil's advocate for a second, tell me any public school who would have turned down Todd Ruggley if he came to you and was cleared by his former superintendant to participate in football. Now, before you all say it, I know you're going to tell the world that those evil catholics went to him and forced him to play for them. Because we all know, no one would ever want to attend LCC legitimately. (I am being sarcastic for those who won't get it).

Obviously, Will Play thinks that LCC should really care so much about what others think that they should not take in any new (transfer) students who wish to attend.

By the way, since this is a volleyball thread, good-luck to the lady Birds at state today. For the haters, you don't have to go...you don't have to watch...you don't have to wish them well...LCC will be just fine without you. I'm not even an LCC person, but you all have made me into a fan.

Edited by dawgbone, 08 November 2007 - 12:18 PM.

[clutch]

dawgbone...thanks for the support.

Edited by clutch, 08 November 2007 - 02:45 PM.

[dawgbone]

You're welcome, Clutch. I'm just not blinded by jealousy like some others on here. They'll deny it of course, but I call them like I see them.

[Will Play for Pay and/or Glory!]

Gum and other LCC faithful who usually can't post as coherently as gum:

It seems your coping mechanism is indeed the "I don't care" routine. If you want us to believe that fans/coaches/parents and, most importantly, students do not want recognition for their accomplishments...I suggest you are a little off base. But if, as you assert, LCC-community is not concerned with trivial matters such as a sullied reputation...could you explain to everybody why your volleyball coach thought it important enough to come on here and defend himself? I think we all know that it is human nature to seek recognition and/or deflect criticism. Your coach and fan reaction only serve to illustrate reasonable and typical human response.

The other typical human response when intellectually trapped in a corner is to pretend you don't care and/or try and bring everybody else down to your level. I'm sure it relieves some of the guilt to feign apathy or over-exaggerate other's actions so as to create illusion that you are not alone. Without boring everybody with tired tit for tat...suffice to say that it is more than a "few uneducated" people who are able to see through weak defensive mechanisms such as Grove playing a student who actually lived in their district, or students transferring out of district at the elementary/junior high levels...and equating such actions as moral equivalents to LCC gaining needed football players at critical positions three years running...at least one as a senior transfer.

The proof is in the reputations. Nobody is sitting around waiting for Grove, Bluffton, Paulding, Jefferson, Crestview (insert your favorite NWC team besides LCC here) to magically improve their team this off-season through talent-infusion. But for LCC...it is beyond a joking matter. People just expect and assume you will fill critical needs by methods you always have. This is your reputation...and most of it was well-earned by your own actions. Where it gets sad is when your girls volleyball team has to carry this unfortunate burden. The typical Lima-land sports fan will automatically assume that they cheated to achieve their success.

I understand the urge to defend your team. I also understand that many time LCC fans are baited/chided into such defensiveness...one need only look at the title of this thread. But many get tired of LCC-fan and their self-congratulatory ways too. But I guess I can understand the need for internal support since the external stuff is hard to come by. Suffice to say...when it comes to over-playing the LCC debate...both LCC-fans and LCC-haters share some blame.

In conclusion (for now), I will add that we have seen exactly as I predicted. Exactly two LCC posters have played the defiance card. Multiple LCC posters, including a coach and parent(s?) were ready to respond like eager beavers when the subject at hand was blaming Grove-fan. Given the opportunity to reflect similar criticism toward LCC's own failures...and we get two defiant posters. When the best defense you can muster involves zero opportunity to illustrate the positives of your own actions...and instead involves desperate attempts to try and bring other NWC members down to your level or castigating those who disagree with you as "uneducated"...I might suggest that you instead try the silent defense like your volleyball coach is smartly doing. Both the defiance and silent techniques indeed do nothing to change your sullied reputation...as discussed above. But at least with the silence technique you don't find yourself in the unenviable position of casting your detractors as "uneducated people" and/or have to resort to begging someone not to respond in hopes of silencing critical discussion...but then coming on here and acting exactly as those "uneducated people" predicted! I assume that given that fine private education, at least a few might be able to identify the irony.

P.S. Gum...I like your posts and ability to respond to any audience...even as I disagree with you. I just hope, you...or somebody at LCC will one day reflect your time and energy in criticizing forces that could actually benefit everybody at LCC. There is opportunity for somebody to one day get the courage and ask your administration to get proactive in taking steps to fix the reputation. I know that if I were a parent or coach of one of these volleyball girls (or any student at LCC) I would have forced public explanation of why the administration continues to participate and play party to actions that, at the very least, do nothing to dilute LCC's reputation as a sport's factory willing to accept...even other school's discipline problems...if it might help them win a contest.

Or you could spend valuable paranoia on a Grove conspiracy to slay the Thunderbird Dragon!